I've been on both ends of the spectrum, Desktop Support now SE. I can understand the view from their side when an end-user is breathing down their neck so much that they get tunnel-vision and only care about fixing the immediate issue the fastest way possible so the end-user can do their job.
Don Guyer Systems Engineer - Information Services Prudential, Fox & Roach/Trident Group 431 W. Lancaster Avenue Devon, PA 19333 Direct: (610) 993-3299 Fax: (610) 650-5306 [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> From: David Lum [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:47 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Apple vs Microsoft? +1!! The mindset is COMPLETELY different. Desktop Support: Make it work! Reg hack, add-in, whatever, just make it run. Systems Engineer: Make everything consistent so it *ALL* works with a minimum of exceptions. Automate and have central management on everything possible. In my experience the biggest difference is "thinking in scale". Typical desktop guys think 1:1 and don't take into consideration the ability to scale out a specific change or fix. SE's think on one-to-many. In fact as two of my personal biz clients I replaced the previous tech's who were basically "desktop types", and it was quite apparent when looking at the AD configuration... David Lum // SYSTEMS ENGINEER NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION (Desk) 971.222.1025 // (Cell) 503.267.9764 From: Jonathan Link [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 8:55 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Apple vs Microsoft? A bench tech does not a network guru make. On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Jeff Brown <[email protected]> wrote: I used to work for a consulting firm that actually had both MS and Apple techs. The mac techs were so excited about the I-Server and of course convinced that it would lead the the short demise of all windows servers. Their first install started at 4 pm on a Friday, they were replacing a SBS with this new MAC. It NEVER crossed their minds that they might need an MS tech to help at all with this migration. They called me at 5 p.m. on Saturday. NOTHING worked on either server. These were 2 FULLY certified MAC specialists who were approved to do warrantee work for most everything Apple. The "manual" for the xserve looked like it had been written by a sales person. It looks to me like no one in that whole org knows JACK about networking. They had not even considered looking at the firewall portion..... well anyway, maybe the guys I worked with were the biggest part of that problem, but I don't think so. I think both of them were better than average for MAC techs, but they were lost on server side, and the EASY interface didn't do the job for them. It does have some COOL features. You can pull up any mac's current session and watch them work without them knowing it... Wow. On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Jonathan Link <[email protected]> wrote: Sure you are. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :-) -Jonathan On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:16 AM, James Rankin <[email protected]> wrote: Stick an Apple logon on a lump of Steve Jobs' vomit and Mac users would claim it tasted like pumpkin pie, and looked much cooler than Microsoft puke This is from someone who is sick of hearing a colleague Apple fan-boy bigging up their iPhone by showing us how "useful" it is, from the lightsabre noises it can make to the fact that there is an app for everything (including the cure for AIDS) Not wanting to reignite the old MS v Apple debate or anything :-) 2009/7/15 David Lum <[email protected]> Your boss might want to consider how hard it may or may not be to find someone to handle the XSERVE thing as well, the talent pool will be smaller and (I would expect) the salaries to be higher. I know of some Mac users that love their Macs unless they need help with it, because so many folks are PC types.. Also "I have been told that 150 users can be better managed on two XSERVE's than on a Windows Active directory network" Have them define "manage". I would expect it manages Mac's better J. David Lum // SYSTEMS ENGINEER NORTHWEST EVALUATION ASSOCIATION (Desk) 971.222.1025 // (Cell) 503.267.9764 P.S. I have to LOL Za, I have a Optiplex 745 with 64-bit XP running VMWare Workstation and it is hosting my dev environment: SQL server, web server, misc. development servers (W2K8, Moss2K7, SCCM, etc) and a VM of Win XP. Of course, I can only power up about 4 VM's at a time, but... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- -----Original Message----- From: Vue, Za [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:19 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Apple vs Microsoft? Where does the boss get the idea that a Mac environment will be a better long term move? I still manage one Xserve. Attached to it is an Xraid with 16 hard drives. Used exclusively for data storage. One 400 GB hard drive failed in last 3 years. Controller B was also replaced on the X-Raid. The server is attached to a Win08 AD. Overall the system works well but I am just not a proponent of Mac OS. AD integration has greatly improved with the latest OS. A Dell Optiplex running Windows 2008 for under $1000 can handle 150 users but maybe your company has money to spend. Get two Optiplex'es and cluster them and attach a disk array. The cheapest single Xserve is currently $2999.00 and comes only with a 7200 160gig HD. Customize the system to your requirements and you are looking at $6000-$7000 per server. Just to remote into the server requires a $300 extra software. Crazy man.. I torrent the damn thing instead. :) I have a Dell Optiplex 745, 3.0 Ghz, 6/GB RAM, 2x250 GB HD set up as a 64/bit Win08 DC and print server for 23 networked printers. I have 160 users & 400+ students in the department. The darn thing is as quiet as my laptop. -Z.V. ________________________________________ From: Shawn [[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:01 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Apple vs Microsoft? Does anyone here have any experience, good or bad, regarding the Apple XSERVE being utilized to host email, data storage, open directory, etc as an equivalent replacement for Microsoft Server? We are currently running SBS 2003 and have 40 users, but will soon be upping that number to 150. My boss insists that moving everything over to a Mac environment will be a better long term move, but I am a bit hesitant without having some outside data to back that up. I have been told that 150 users can be better managed on two XSERVE's than on a Windows Active directory network, yet I have had a rough time finding any direct comparisons. If any of you have experience running either a mixed environment with both OS X Server and Windows Server or just a pure OS X environment w/ Mac clients as well, I would be interested to hear what your take on this is. I would also be very interested to here from anyone that has done a migration from Active directory to Open directory, along with any challenges on the user end. What challenges did you face? Are there any specifics that you can offer regarding stability, administration, etc? Thanks in advance for any input you can provide. Shawn ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ -- "On two occasions...I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." http://raythestray.blogspot.com <http://raythestray.blogspot.com/> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~
