On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 6:14 PM Stephan Hoyer <sho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 4:34 PM Robert Kern <robert.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I maintain that considering deprecation is premature at this time. Please >> take it out of this NEP. Let us get a feel for how people actually use >> .oindex/.vindex. Then we can talk about deprecation. This NEP gets my >> enthusiastic approval, except for the deprecation. I will be happy to talk >> about deprecation with an open mind in a few years. With some more actual >> experience under our belt, rather than prediction and theory, we can be >> more confident about the approach we want to take. Deprecation is not a >> fundamental part of this NEP and can be decided independently at a later >> time. >> > > I agree, we should scale back most of the deprecations proposed in this > NEP, leaving them for possible future work. In particular, you're not > convinced yet that "outer indexing" is a more intuitive default indexing > mode than "vectorized indexing", so it is premature to deprecate vectorized > indexing behavior that conflicts with outer indexing. OK, fair enough. > Actually, I do think outer indexing is more "intuitive"*, as far as that goes. It's just rarely what I actually want to accomplish. * I do not like using "intuitive" in programming. Nipples are intuitive. Everything else is learned. But in this case, I think that outer indexing is a more concordant extension of the concepts that a new numpy user would have learned earlier: integer indices and slices. I would still like to include at least two more limited form of deprecation > that I hope will be less controversial: > - Mixed boolean/integer array indexing. This is not very intuitive nor > useful, and I don't think I've ever seen it used. Usually "outer indexing" > behavior is what is desired here. > - Mixed array/slice indexing, for cases with arrays separated by slices so > NumPy can't do the "intuitive" transpose on the output. As noted in the > NEP, this is a common source of bugs. Users who want this should really > switch to vindex. > I'd still prefer not talking deprecation, per se, in this NEP (but my objection is weaker). I would definitely start adding in informative, noisy warnings in these cases, though. Along the lines of, "Hey, this is a dodgy construction that typically gives unexpected results. Here are .oindex/.vindex that might do what you actually want, but you can use .legacy_index if you just want to silence this warning". Rather than "Hey, this is going to go away at some point." -- Robert Kern
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