On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 8:02 AM Charles R Harris <charlesr.har...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I spent so much time updating the wheels builds to 64 bit BLAS mostly > because > > > - I needed to actually understand how multibuild worked (and docs are > minimal). > - I don't know powershell (and docs are hard to find). > - I don't know azure works at a lower level (and docs are hard to > find). > > > And I thought it would all be drop in easy :) What that indicates to me is > that we could use a build expert and simpler infrastructure. Anaconda no > doubt has people far more knowledgeable about such matters than I am. > > As to the twitter thread, what is the proposal(s)? I'm perfectly happy to > leave support for more exotic platforms to people who have the hardware and > make use of it, but no doubt such people have the opposite problem of not > knowing much about NumPy. > > Chuck > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 4:22 AM Ralf Gommers <ralf.gomm...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> This whole thread is quite interesting: >> https://twitter.com/zooba/status/1415440484181417998. Given how much >> effort we are spending on really niche wheel builds, I’m wondering if we >> should just draw a line somewhere: >> >> - we do what we do now for the main platforms: Windows, Linux (x86, >> aarch64), macOS, *but*: >> - no wheels for ppc64le >> - no wheels for Alpine Linux >> - no wheels for PyPy >> - no wheels for Raspberry Pi, AIX or whatever other niche thing comes >> next. >> - drop 32-bit Linux in case it is becoming an annoyance. >> >> This is not an actual proposal (yet) and I should sleep on this some >> more, but I've seen Chuck and Matti burn a lot of time on the numpy-wheels >> repo again recently, and I've done the same for SciPy. The situation is not >> very sustainable and needs a rethink. >> >> The current recipe is "someone who cares about a platform writes a PEP, >> then pip/wheel add a platform tag for it (very little work), and then the >> maintainers of each Python package are now responsible for wheel builds (a >> ton of work)". Most of these platforms have package managers, which are all >> more capable than pip et al., and if they don't then wheels can be hosted >> elsewhere (example: https://www.piwheels.org/). And then there's Conda, >> Nix, Spack, etc. too of course. >> >> Drawing a line somewhere distributes the workload, where packagers who >> care about some platform and have better tools at hand can do the >> packaging, and maintainers can go do something with more impact like write >> new code or review PRs. >> >> <end of brainwave> >> >> Cheers, >> Ralf >> >> Let me add that distutils brings it's own set of problems. A better build system could help make building wheels simpler on various platforms. But then, someone would also need to become expert in that build system. Chuck
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