Hi all,
I would like to formally propose accepting NEP 51. Without any concern
voiced, we will consider it accepted within 7 days.
As a reminder, this is to change the representation of NumPy scalars to
be consistent and include the type name.
That means the following representations:
np.float64(6.4) -> np.float64(6.4)
np.float64(np.nan) -> np.float64(nan)
rather than just `6.4` or `nan`. All scalars would follow this exact
pattern of `np.<type_name>(value)`.
There are some further details, for these please check the full NEP:
https://numpy.org/neps/nep-0051-scalar-representation.html
For those interested in more details, a few notes:
* To implement the NEP, we need to update NumPy docs. I plan to
automate this (mostly) and such automation should also help others.
(I will make a brief note of this in the NEP.)
Help with this automation would be greatly appreciated, since this is
its own project.
* I am not sure that the underscored versions `np.str_` and `np.bool_`
will be the correct names for long. If we adjust them, then this
would propagate to the NEP.
* There are a few implementation details in the NEP, I don't mind
adjusting them. But do wish to be pragmatic about progressing if
there is no clearly formulated alternative.
* Clearly we can always adjust the printing conventions, e.g. whether
to include the `np.` or whether NaN's should be `np.float64(nan)` or
not. But bike-sheds happening now have a much better chance of
being heard :).
1. The current NEP states that we use `np.str_` and `np.bytes_`. There
is some chance that the top-level names could be changed, in that case
the representation would change accordingly. (I consider this an
adjustment we can do without the NEP.)
2. To properly implement the NEP, we need to automate some of the
documentation changes necessary. This should also enable downstream to
do the same or at least have a blueprint as a starting point.
(Help with this work is greatly appreciated, since it is its own small
project to hook into the doctest utilities.)
I plan on adding a brief note on about helping with doc updates to NEP
when accepting it. Ross was planning to add a table of changed
examples, although I don't think that is necessary for accepting.
Cheers,
Sebastian
On Fri, 2022-10-28 at 10:54 +0200, Sebastian Berg wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As mentioned earlier, I would like to propose changing the
> representation of scalars in NumPy. Discussion and ideas on changes
> are much appreciated!
>
> The main change is to show scalars as:
>
> * `np.float64(3.0)` instead of just `3.0`
> * `np.True_` instead of `True`
> * `np.void((3, 5), dtype=[('a', '<i8'), ('b', 'u1')])` instead of
> `(3, 5)`
> * Use `np.` rather than `numpy.` for datetime/timedelta.
>
> This way it is clear for users that they are dealing with NumPy
> scalars
> which behave different from Python scalars.
> The `str()` that is given when using `print()` and the way arrays are
> shown will be unchanged.
>
> The NEP draft can be found here:
>
> https://numpy.org/neps/nep-0051-scalar-representation.html
>
> and it includes more details and related changes.
>
> The implementation is largely finished and can be found here:
>
> https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/22449
>
> W are fairly late in the release cycle and the change should not
> block
> other things. So, the aim is to merge it early in the next release
> cycle. That way downstream has time to fix documentation is wanted.
>
> Depending on how discussion goes, I hope to formally propose the NEP
> fairly soon, so that the merging the implementation doesn't need to
> wait on NEP approval.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2022-09-08 at 11:38 +0200, Sebastian Berg wrote:
> >
> > TL;DR: NumPy scalars representation is e.g. `34.3` instead of
> > `float32(34.3)`. So the representation is missing the type
> > information. What are your thoughts on changing that?
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am thinking about the next steps for NEP 50 (The NEP wants to fix
> > the
> > NumPy promotion rules, especially with respect to scalars):
> >
> > https://numpy.org/neps/nep-0050-scalar-promotion.html
> >
> > In relation to that, there was one point that Stéfan brought up
> > previously.
> >
> > The NumPy scalars (representation) currently print as numbers:
> >
> > >>> np.float32(34.3)
> > 34.3
> > >>> np.uint8(5)
> > 5
> >
> > That can already be confusing now. However, it gets more
> > problematic
> > if NEP 50 is introduced since the behavior between a Python `34.3`
> > and
> > `np.float32(34.3)` would differ more than it does now (please refer
> > to
> > the NEP).
> >
> > The change would be that we should print as:
> >
> > float64(34.3) (or similar?)
> >
> > This Email is mainly to ask for any feedback or concern on such a
> > change. I suspect we may have to write a very brief NEP about it.
> >
> > If there is little concern, maybe we could move forward such a
> > change
> > promptly. Otherwise it could be moved forward together with NEP 50
> > and
> > take effect in a "major" release [1].
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Sebastian
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] Note that for me, even a major release would hopefully not
> > affect
> > the majority of users or be very disruptive.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Member address: sebast...@sipsolutions.net
>
>
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