On 2015/04/08 8:09 AM, Alan G Isaac wrote: > That analogy fails because it suggests a private conversation. This list is > extremely public. > For example, I am just a user, and I am on it. I can tell you that as a > long-time numpy user > my reaction to the proposal to change indexing semantics was (i) OMG YMBFKM > and then > (ii) take a breath; this too will fade away. It is very reasonable to worry > that some users > will start at the same place but them move in a different direction, and that > worry should > affect how such proposals are floated and discussed. I am personally > grateful that the > idea's reception has been so chilly; it's very reassuring.
OK, so I was not sufficiently tactful when I tried to illustrate the real practical problem associated with a *core* aspect of numpy. My intent was not to alarm users, and I apologize if I have done so. I'm glad you have been reassured. I know perfectly well that back-compatibility and stability are highly important. What I wanted to do was to stimulate thought about how to handle a serious challenge to numpy's future--short-term, and long-term. Jaime's PR is a very welcome response to that challenge, but it might not be the end of the story. Matthew nicely sketched out one possible scenario, or actually a range of scenarios. Now, can we please get back to consideration of reasonable options? What sequence of steps might reduce the disconnect between numpy and the rest of the array-handling world? And make it a little friendlier for students? Are there *any* changes to indexing, whether by default or as an option, that would help? Consider the example I started with, in which indexing with [1, :, array] gives results that many find surprising and hard to understand. Might it make sense to *slowly* deprecate this? Or are such indexing expressions actually useful? If they are, would it be out of the question to have them *optionally* trigger a warning, so that numpy could be configured to be a little less likely to trip up a non-expert user? Eric > > fwiw, > Alan > > > On 4/7/2015 9:06 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> If a grad student or junior colleague comes to you with an >> idea where you see some potentially critical flaw, do you >> yell THAT WILL NEVER WORK and kick them out of your >> office? Or, do you maybe ask a few leading questions and >> see where they go? > > _______________________________________________ > NumPy-Discussion mailing list > NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org > http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion > _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion