Hi Larry, Trying to capture the point about separating the NVA, a pervasive 
service centralized, clustered, or federated, from the meshed-aggregation 
topology constrains of the NVEs. 

Such separation is not mandatory in traditional routing, but is mandatory to 
scale NVOs. The NVE-NVO interface defined by this separation should be key 
target for standardization.

However, like most folks on the WG also all for moving forward.
Once we separate what's NVE-NVE  (examp L2/3 encap, echos, measurements..) and 
what's NVE-NVA (RLOC/VTEP, Mcast, affinity..) the right language will hopefully 
emerge.


--szb

> On Sep 10, 2014, at 6:40 PM, "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sharon,
> 
> I really have not idea what the term "logically distinguished" means.  It
> seem to suggest that the NVA can be distinguished (recognized as
> different) from something else by using logic, but I assume that isn't
> what you meant.  I'm not in favor of this term.
> 
> - Larry
> 
>> On 9/8/14 8:00 PM, "Sharon Barkai" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> One last try to split this nose hair:
>> 
>> NVA: Find  "logically centralized" replace with  "logically
>> distinguished" a service defined by the NVE-NVA interface
>> 
>> (and not by implementation eg BGP, DHT, X500..)
>> 
>> 
>> The NVO3 WG will develop solutions for network virtualization based on the
>> following architectural tenets:
>> - Support for an IP-based underlay data plane
>> - A Network Virtualization Edge (NVE) that sits at the edge of an
>>  underlay network and provides L2 and/or L3 network virtualization
>>  functions to Tenant Systems
>> - A logically distinguished Network Virtualization Authority (NVA), a
>> service that NVEs interact with to obtain the information necessary to
>>  provide a virtualized service, and is defined by the NVE-NVA interface
>> and API.
>> 
>> 
>> --szb
>> 
>>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 12:08 PM, "Thomas Narten" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Benson.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the updated charter. Here are some possible wording
>>> clarifications. I do not believe the change the charter in a material
>>> way (and are not intended to). But they may make aspects of it a bit
>>> clearer.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/nvo3/charter-ietf-nvo3-01-rev-20140901.
>>>> txt
>>>> 
>>>> The purpose of the NVO3 WG is to develop a set of protocols and/or
>>>> protocol
>>>> extensions that enable network virtualization within a data center (DC)
>>>> environment using an IP-based overlay approach. An NVO3 solution
>>>> provides layer
>>>> 2 and/or layer 3 services for virtual networks enabling multi-tenancy,
>>>> workload
>>>> mobility, optimization, management, and security, addressing the issues
>>>> described in the problem statement and consistent with the framework
>>>> previously
>>>> produced by the NVO3 WG.
>>> 
>>> better:
>>> 
>>> I suggest removing " optimization, management, and security" because
>>> they are not things that are "enabled" by NVO3 per se. At least not
>>> without more words explaining what is meant. If I were an IESG member,
>>> I'd ask "what do those words mean?". I think all these things are
>>> covered in the problem statement/framework anyway, and folk with
>>> questions should be pointed there.
>>> 
>>>> The NVO3 WG will develop solutions for network virtualization based on
>>>> the
>>>> following architectural tenets:
>>>> - Support for an IP-based underlay data plane
>>>> - A logically centralized authority for network virtualization
>>>> Network virtualization approaches that do not adhere to these tenets
>>>> are
>>>> explicitly outside of the scope of the NVO3 WG.
>>> 
>>> The above (mentioning logically centralized) I think continues to be
>>> confusing because it could use more context. How about:
>>> 
>>> The NVO3 WG will develop solutions for network virtualization based on
>>> the
>>> following architectural tenets:
>>> - Support for an IP-based underlay data plane
>>> - A Network Virtualization Edge (NVE) that sits at the edge of an
>>>   underlay network and provides L2 and/or L3 network virtualization
>>>   functions to Tenant Systems
>>> - A logically centralized Network Virtualization Authority (NVA)
>>>   that NVEs interact with to obtain the information necessary to
>>>   provide a virtualized service.
>>> Network virtualization approaches that do not adhere to these tenets are
>>> explicitly outside of the scope of the NVO3 WG.
>>> 
>>>> In pursuit of the solutions described above, the NVO3 WG will document
>>>> an
>>>> architecture for network virtualization within a data center
>>>> environment.
>>>> 
>>>> The NVO3 WG may produce requirements for a network virtualization
>>>> control
>>>> plane, and will select, extend, and/or develop one or more control
>>>> plane
>>>> protocols to support the architecture. Such protocols are expected to
>>>> fulfill
>>>> the communication requirements between an End Device and Network
>>>> Virtualization
>>>> Edge (NVE), and between an NVE and the Network Virtualization
>>>> Authority (NVA).
>>>> The internal mechanisms and protocols of a logically centralized NVA
>>>> are
>>>> explicitly out of scope of the NVO3 WG.  Architectural issues raised by
>>>> coexistence of multiple logically centralized control planes in the
>>>> same data
>>>> center may be considered by the WG. Inter-DC mechanisms are not in
>>>> scope of
>>>> the NVO3 WG at this time.
>>> 
>>> Above can be shortened or redone based on previous suggestion. Also,
>>> actually think the use of "end device" above is not sufficient/precise
>>> enough, because we are NOT talking about a generic "end device", but
>>> the split-NVE case in particular. Better to just say that. (And note
>>> that the WG document that covers this case is
>>> draft-ietf-nvo3-hpvr2nve-cp-req, which is called "Hypervisor to NVE
>>> Control Plane Requirements".)
>>> 
>>> E.g., something like:
>>> 
>>> The NVO3 WG may produce requirements for a network virtualization
>>> control plane, and will select, extend, and/or develop one or more
>>> control plane protocols to support the architecture. Such protocols
>>> are expected to fulfill the following communication requirements:
>>> - for a "split-NVE", where the NVE functions are split between an end
>>>  device and an adjacent switch,
>>> - between an NVE and an NVA.
>>> The internal mechanisms and protocols of a logically centralized NVA
>>> are explicitly out of scope of the NVO3 WG.  Architectural issues
>>> raised by
>>> coexistence of multiple logically centralized control planes in the
>>> same data center may be considered by the WG. Inter-DC mechanisms are
>>> not in scope of the NVO3 WG at this time.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The NVO3 WG may produce requirements for network virtualization data
>>>> planes
>>>> based on encapsulation of virtual network traffic over an IP-based
>>>> underlay
>>>> data plane. Such requirements should consider OAM and security. Based
>>>> on these
>>>> requirements the WG will select, extend, and/or develop one or more
>>>> data plane
>>>> encapsulation format(s).
>>>> 
>>>> Additionally, the WG may document common use-cases for NVO3 solutions.
>>>> 
>>>> The working group may choose to adopt a protocol or data encapsulation
>>>> that was
>>>> previously worked on outside the IETF as the basis for the WG's work.
>>>> If the
>>>> NVO3 WG anticipates the adoption of the technologies of another SDO as
>>>> part of
>>>> the selected protocols or data encapsulation, the NVO3 WG will first
>>>> liaise
>>>> with that SDO.
>>>> 
>>>> BGP-based solutions to network virtualization within a data center
>>>> environment
>>>> will be developed in the BGP-Enabled Services (BESS) WG.
>>>> 
>>>> MILESTONES
>>>> 
>>>> Done - Problem Statement submitted for IESG review
>>>> Done - Framework document submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - Architecture submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - End Device to NVE Control Plane Protocol Adopted by WG
>>> 
>>> Better: Control Plane for Split-NVE case Adopted
>>> 
>>>> TBD - NVE to NVA Control Plane Protocol Adopted by WG
>>>> TBD - NVE Data Plane Protocol Adopted by WG
>>>> TBD - Data Plane Requirements submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - Control Plane Requirements submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - OAM Requirements submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - Security Requirements submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - Use Cases submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - End Device to NVE Control Plane Protocol Submitted for IESG
>>>> review
>>>> TBD - NVA to NVA Control Plane Protocol Submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - NVE Data Plane Protocol Submitted for IESG review
>>>> TBD - Recharter or close WG
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Thomas
>>> 
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