Hello. I am considering trying to establish a point-to-point link between my office, which is on the 36th floor of my building, and a nearby plaza. I have visual line of sight to the plaza, and estimate that the total distance is approximately 500 feet. Unfortunately, I don't have easy rooftop access from my building. Does anyone have experience trying to use a directional antenna through a glass window? Any suggestions? Thanks.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 2:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: nycwireless digest, Vol 1 #532 - 13 msgs Send nycwireless mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nycwireless digest..." Today's Topics: 1. WTB(orrow|uy)1 O-Sillyscope WAS: Re: [nycwireless] RE: "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" (R.D. Hammond) 2. Re: RE: "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" (Michael Sims) 3. Re: "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" (Dustin Goodwin) 4. 2.4ghz phone testing event (Dustin Goodwin) 5. Re: 2.4ghz phone testing event (Kevin Arima) 6. Re: 2.4ghz phone testing event (jonathan) 7. Re: "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" (Ben Serebin) 8. PTP and Starbucks in Portland TV Clips (Ben Serebin) 9. Connection Recommendations? (Brett Jones) 10. discount: Wirelapse.net ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 11. Newbie Needs LUCENT BRONZE DRIVER HELP (Michael Yellin) 12. Re: Newbie Needs LUCENT BRONZE DRIVER HELP (Terry Schmidt) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:21:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "R.D. Hammond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Ian Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Nathanial Freitas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: WTB(orrow|uy)1 O-Sillyscope WAS: Re: [nycwireless] RE: "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" use of microwave oven robustness mode with a phase remodulated power supply could, (with the right APs) slice a single channel into two non overlapping media timewise. I look forward to playing with this if someone has a multi (2) channel scope in the nyc area, few 100 Hz resolution ought to do just fine. robin-david hammond KB3IEN On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Ian Howard wrote: > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:41:04 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ian Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Nathanial Freitas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [nycwireless] RE: "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists > Over Airwaves" > > Nathan, > > No algorithm per say, however, when two waves that meet, at the same frequency, > they will have a net loss equivalent to the amplitude of the opposing wave -- > This will yield in the weaker signal being drowned-out by the stronger signal > and the stronger signal being degraded by the strength of the weaker signal. > Moreover, as a radio signal loses power (amplitude) at a rate that is inversely > proportional to the distance squared, one can calculate signal strength at a > given distance from the source. This is a gross simplification, but essentially, > since both services are using the same frequencies they will both experience > degradation to their signal. > > In an area the size of Pioneer square, there is no reason why both services > cannot coordinate the use of their frequencies. The fact that this band is > unregulated does not preclude courtesy and cooperation. > > Ian > > > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Nathanial Freitas wrote: > > > So what are the quantitative facts behind this claimed "degraded service"? > Is there some sort of known algorithm for determining reduction in > bandwidth/throughput based on the signal strength of overlapping base > stations at a certain point? > > Thanks, > Nathan > > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Christopher Mc Carthy wrote: > > > <lol>, The Register's picked it up :) > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/26747.html > > > > Starbuck's sells free WiFi access > > By Thomas C Greene in Washington > > Posted: 20/08/2002 at 09:23 GMT > > > > If they can sell burnt, ruined coffee at premium prices, why not wireless > > Web access one could have for free? So goes the reasoning behind Starbucks' > > decision to offer WiFi at $30.00 a month in Portland, Oregon's Pioneer > > Square, where free access is already provided by grassroots outfit Personal > > Telco. > > > > According to this item in The Oregonian, Starbuck's is muscling in on the > > same channel already taken by PT, with the result that users of both > > services are enjoying degraded performance -- only those going through > > Starbuck's are enjoying it at a premium price. > > > > The company is using T-Mobile, a VoiceStream outfit, as their provider. > > Those who desire access outside the downtown 'WiFi free zone' are welcome to > > shell out $50.00 a month for coverage in airports and other Starbuck's > > stores. > > > > As the turf war warms up, we have to wonder if PT can give away what a slick > > marketing illusionist like Starbuck's can sell. > > > > If they can make billions hustling the worst coffee I've ever tasted outside > > institutional settings, well, no doubt this initiative will go quite nicely. > > � > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Christopher Mc Carthy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Envoy� : 20 August 2002 11:42 > > � : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Objet : "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" > > > > > > 'Lifted' off slashdot - <http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/08/20/0431202.shtml? > > tid=98> , of potential major interest... > > > > A little quote from the article <<"If we take the stance that we're the > > little guy and start hopping around, what happens when there are no channels > > left?" Shand said.>> Hear hear, way to go :)) > > > > Your Rights Online: Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves > > Posted by timothy on Tuesday August 20, @03:29AM > > from the dr-evil-at-play dept. > > fobbman writes: "Portland Oregon's Pioneer Square (the heart of downtown) > > has had free WiFi access provided since February by Personal Telco, which > > is a local group of computer hobbyists. Now Starbuck's is planning on > > offering the same service on the same band in the same area for $29.95 a > > month, according to this story in the local fishwrap > > <http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_sta > > ndard.xsl?/base/front_page/102975810817580.xml>. Without regulation or > > licensing, and with WiFi growing, this could become a common problem." > > > > > > -- > > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > > > > -- > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > > > -- > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Michael Sims <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [nycwireless] RE: "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:18:47 -0400 On Tuesday 20 August 2002 10:41 am, Ian Howard wrote: > No algorithm per say, however, when two waves that meet, at the same > frequency, they will have a net loss equivalent to the amplitude of the > opposing wave This is completely false. I don't mean to be rude, but radio is not an easy subject and the easy stuff you learned about waves in high school simply does not apply. Let me recommend this presentation: http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~cjackson/TAC/Spectrum capacity myth FCC TAC.pdf (spaces part of the URL, unfortunately). -- Michael Sims --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:49:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Dustin Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [nycwireless] "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do we think that all NYC Wireless nodes should use the same channel so we can establish prior residence in unlicensed but regulate frequency? Sounds pretty hokey to me. Since it's of dubious value we should stick to using the best channel for a given location. Any other thoughts on the legal merit of establishing residence on a particular channel? - Dustin - --- Christopher Mc Carthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 'Lifted' off slashdot - > <http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/08/20/0431202.shtml? > tid=98> , of potential major interest... > > A little quote from the article <<"If we take the > stance that we're the > little guy and start hopping around, what happens > when there are no channels > left?" Shand said.>> Hear hear, way to go :)) > > Your Rights Online: Starbucks Clashes With WiFi > Hobbyists Over Airwaves > Posted by timothy on Tuesday August 20, @03:29AM > from the dr-evil-at-play dept. > fobbman writes: "Portland Oregon's Pioneer Square > (the heart of downtown) > has had free WiFi access provided since February by > Personal Telco, which > is a local group of computer hobbyists. Now > Starbuck's is planning on > offering the same service on the same band in the > same area for $29.95 a > month, according to this story in the local fishwrap > <http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_sta > ndard.xsl?/base/front_page/102975810817580.xml>. > Without regulation or > licensing, and with WiFi growing, this could become > a common problem." > > > -- > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > Un/Subscribe: > http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ ===== (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (w) 917.848.4113 There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:55:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Dustin Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [nycwireless] 2.4ghz phone testing event Would anyone be interested in having an event where everyone brings in their 2.4ghz cordless phone and we test how well behaved they are? I have heard reports of Uniden phones that crush all 3 ISM bands knocking all 802.11b clients offline. It would be nice to provide list of the 2.4 phones that are 802.11b friendly. Anyone interested in leading this effort? - Dustin - ===== (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (w) 917.848.4113 There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:04:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Arima <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [nycwireless] 2.4ghz phone testing event On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Dustin Goodwin wrote: > Would anyone be interested in having an event where > everyone brings in their 2.4ghz cordless phone and we > test how well behaved they are? I have heard reports > of Uniden phones that crush all 3 ISM bands knocking > all 802.11b clients offline. It would be nice to > provide list of the 2.4 phones that are 802.11b > friendly. Anyone interested in leading this effort? > I heard that the popular Siemens phone does that too. Unfortunatley, it's the only one of it's kind that does 2-line multi-handset intercom, etc. X10 wireless cameras are notorious for flooding the ISM band as well. Kevin "Starfox" Arima --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:10:17 -0400 (EDT) From: jonathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Dustin Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [nycwireless] 2.4ghz phone testing event Just FYI, my Siemens 2.4 gig 2420 multiline system seems to work great with 802.11 (sometimes I get some clicking on the voice, which might be interference going the other way?). Ripping the base station out, however, is not going to happen, sadly ;) jonathan On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Dustin Goodwin wrote: > Would anyone be interested in having an event where > everyone brings in their 2.4ghz cordless phone and we > test how well behaved they are? I have heard reports > of Uniden phones that crush all 3 ISM bands knocking > all 802.11b clients offline. It would be nice to > provide list of the 2.4 phones that are 802.11b > friendly. Anyone interested in leading this effort? > > - Dustin - > > ===== > (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (w) 917.848.4113 > There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers > exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will > instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre > and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this > has already happened. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > -- > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Ben Serebin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [nycwireless] "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:34:11 -0400 Hello All, Whatever we do, let's avoid Channel 6 since Linksys ships all their APs set to this channel. Having said that, I think we should stick to best channel for the given location. -Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dustin Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [nycwireless] "Starbucks Clashes With WiFi Hobbyists Over Airwaves" > Do we think that all NYC Wireless nodes should use the > same channel so we can establish prior residence in > unlicensed but regulate frequency? Sounds pretty hokey > to me. Since it's of dubious value we should stick to > using the best channel for a given location. Any other > thoughts on the legal merit of establishing residence > on a particular channel? > > - Dustin - > > > --- Christopher Mc Carthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > 'Lifted' off slashdot - > > <http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/08/20/0431202.shtml? > > tid=98> , of potential major interest... > > > > A little quote from the article <<"If we take the > > stance that we're the > > little guy and start hopping around, what happens > > when there are no channels > > left?" Shand said.>> Hear hear, way to go :)) > > > > Your Rights Online: Starbucks Clashes With WiFi > > Hobbyists Over Airwaves > > Posted by timothy on Tuesday August 20, @03:29AM > > from the dr-evil-at-play dept. > > fobbman writes: "Portland Oregon's Pioneer Square > > (the heart of downtown) > > has had free WiFi access provided since February by > > Personal Telco, which > > is a local group of computer hobbyists. Now > > Starbuck's is planning on > > offering the same service on the same band in the > > same area for $29.95 a > > month, according to this story in the local fishwrap > > > <http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_sta > > ndard.xsl?/base/front_page/102975810817580.xml>. > > Without regulation or > > licensing, and with WiFi growing, this could become > > a common problem." > > > > > > -- > > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > > Un/Subscribe: > > > http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > > Archives: > http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > > > ===== > (e) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (w) 917.848.4113 > There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers > exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will > instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre > and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this > has already happened. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > http://www.hotjobs.com > -- > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ > Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ > Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ > --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Ben Serebin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:38:12 -0400 Subject: [nycwireless] PTP and Starbucks in Portland TV Clips Hello Everyone, Well, Terry posted these URLs (of the news clips of PTP and Starbucks on same channel story) to the PTP list, so I thought the NYC crowd would like to watch it as well. Enjoy, -Ben ---------------------------------- or for a faster uplink, 256bps feed: http://atlas.nycwireless.net/mirror/ptp/ptp-kgw8-256kbps.WMV or 2mbps http://atlas.nycwireless.net/mirror/ptp/ptp-kgw8-2mbps.WMV --Terry NYCwireless, friendly neighbor to ptp ---------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:04:27 -0700 From: "Brett Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [nycwireless] Connection Recommendations? Hello all, I'm trying to connect with a friend who lives on the same street, about 10 doors (<200 feet) down. The street is all brownstones, and we both have top floors, and could do roof access. Line of sight isn't an option, but up high there are only one or two buildings between us. I put a Netgear MR314 router in his place, and have a Linksys WUSB11 adapter. I can sometimes see his sessionID, but cannot successfully connect. I presume I'm hurting myself with this cheap equipment, but it's still new, and I'm ready to take it back. What suggestions does anyone have for making this connection? I figure external antennae may be in order... Do both ends of the connection have to support an external antenna for any benefit? Any recommendations for cards that have external antenna support? Any antenna recommendations for urban, through brick, point-to-point type applications? Would it be worth it to step up to 802.11A for this problem? Linux support on a card is a big plus, a router on my friend's end is also desired. Thanks for any help! Brett Jonse --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:20:57 -0700 (PDT) From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [nycwireless] discount: Wirelapse.net Heya all, I would like to invite any reader of these PTP or nycwireless lists to check out my store at http://wirelapse.net. If you mention the PTP mailing list or the NYCwireless mailing list in the notes box when you purchase, I will give a 3% discount on the order. If you buy in quantities of 10 or more, you will receive a 5% discount. I am doing this because I want to "iron-out" any wrinkles in my store software and ordering process. This discount will be good through the end of September, to encourage wireless "clubs", to support the wireless community, and to offer great prices on gear. We are based in NE Indiana, so we can ship to almost every location in the continental US within 5 days (max.) My distributor ships from 6 different warehouse locations in the following locations: Harrisburg Boston Miami Chicago Dallas California Regards, Nathan Hein webmaster wirelapse.net --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Michael Yellin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:20:01 -0700 Subject: [nycwireless] Newbie Needs LUCENT BRONZE DRIVER HELP Hello All, I got a great deal on some Lucent Bronze Turbo cards. However, I can't find the right drivers, and client managers. I have searched the net far and wide, and have downloaded several drivers, but all for the Orinoco, which I believe is the same unit, but they doesn't seem to work, or improve the situation. Yes, I have uninstalled before every driver installation. When I attempt to use the client manager, my computer freezes. I have tried to update the cards firmware with WSU 606 and 810. 606 says the driver isn't right for the card, and 810 says that there is no card installed, and then crashes the computer. Weird thing is that Netstumbler seems to work, and the card appears to be installed under the control panel, with no exclamation points, and the device claims to be working properly in control panel systems. Yes, I know, I am using windows, 98 or 98SE. I know, Linux, this, or that, would be better, but I am a computer user, not a computer programmer/genius, so windows, with all it's issues, is still the easiest to use for me, and besides, I have been using it for a while. Well, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanx Michael --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Terry Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Michael Yellin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [nycwireless] Newbie Needs LUCENT BRONZE DRIVER HELP Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:57:54 -0400 I've used the bronze cards with the latest firmware and drivers fine. I have had problems with the bronze cards when having them in upon startup. Solution to the problem was to put the cards in after the computer had finished booting, and I had logged in. --Terry --__--__-- -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/ End of nycwireless Digest -- NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/ Un/Subscribe: http://lists.nycwireless.net/mailman/listinfo/nycwireless/ Archives: http://lists.nycwireless.net/pipermail/nycwireless/
