I usually just sit in on this group looking out for the odd nugget of wisdom from time to time, but I'm moved to respond to voice my disgust in the way someone who is looking to start up a business has been treated. Let's be reasonable, every business that currently exists was a start up at some point. Can't we just congratulate the guy for giving it a go, wish him luck and if we can help with advice do it with good grace.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ivan Kurnosov Sent: Saturday, 20 April 2013 10:00 p.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [phpug] starting a startup. developers needed > The banks will not lend money for risky stuff like website ventures. Right. They don't want to lose their money. What you're trying to do - is to share your risks *for free*. As I mentioned - you would never open a cafe in that way, it won't work for internet business as well. If you don't sponsor your venture - you won't ever be successful. > Also, my friends who work at the incubators have advised me not to pay anyone at this stage but make sure things go right and then you can apply for angel funding etc. This made my day! You'd better had friends who work in banks, who can count money not just dream about multi-million so called startups :-D > I lack the technical skill on the computer side, however, there are other skill that I bring to the table. What actual skills? Please have a look at your first post. You haven't self-presented yourself and your project. But you have provided a list of "must"s. You didn't even share your name so we could google for it. You're already hiding from potential participants? On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:51:12 PM UTC+12, David wrote: Do you know how the banking system works? Do you know how the banking loans work? Banks in the AUS/NZ are well regulated and won't just give out money like the old days in the States during the 80's and 90's. You have to have a 9 to 5 job and earn a certain amount for you to borrow a certain amount. Do you actually believe anyone can just walk into a bank and demand $100k to $500k???? If you are self-employed, there is a harder criteria. Even though you have revenue coming in, you have to consistently show for a long period of time to obtain a loan or even a mortgage. Even if you have cash in the bank account, but are not running a business or working a 9 to 5 job, the banks will not give you a loan. They have internal calculation systems. The banks will not lend money for risky stuff like website ventures. They are more interested in physical stuff eg. homes and other valuable commodities. Also, my friends who work at the incubators have advised me not to pay anyone at this stage but make sure things go right and then you can apply for angel funding etc. I'm looking and responding to many people and it seems they have absolutely no clue about how incubators, vc firms, angels, banks, accelerators work. I highly regard developers. I see people who will join me in the venture as team members and as equals. I lack the technical skill on the computer side, however, there are other skill that I bring to the table. It's almost 10 pm on Saturday. I'm just going to enjoy the night. On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Ivan Kurnosov <[email protected] <javascript:> > wrote: Ok. You're a businessman that has businesses and experience. Why not take a loan in bank? If you've already had such a great experience - any bank would easily give you $100k-$200k. If you wanted to open a cafe - that's what you would do, you wouldn't ask waiters, barmen and chief to work for several months for free. You want ask a landlord to rent a place for you for free. You want ask furniture for free. Why this case is an exclusion? Or programmers differ from waiters in some way? On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:31:30 PM UTC+12, David wrote: I never said $100k for 2 months for 1 person. There are overhead costs etc. involved. It's each individual choice whether they want to be involved in the venture. They're all grown and can make up their own decisions. There are good ideas thrive, and plenty of bad one eg. the dotcom bubble and the dotcom bubble 2.0 that's happening already. Look at Y-combinator. They are not willing to invest in website companies these days according to the news but are looking more towards hardware eg. stuff similar like the Jawbone, the Pebble Watch. On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Ivan Kurnosov <[email protected]> wrote: $100k for 2 months for 1 person? But anyway, you're currently want to share risks. What do you bring to a project? Just an idea? Ideas cost nothing. If you fail - then people because of *YOUR* mistake will lose 2 unpaid months. On Saturday, April 20, 2013 3:03:08 PM UTC+12, David wrote: Hi, Ivan. 12k wouldn't cut it according to the developers. I've been given quotes from $100k to $500k. Sure, that would be nice if I was the jack of all trades and do a sole venture but that's unrealistic. On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Ivan Kurnosov <[email protected]> wrote: If you're that sure in success - why don't you go to a bank and get a loan for $12k or so? In that case you'll don't need to share your company and future profits with someone else. I think it sounds reasonable. On Friday, April 19, 2013 3:26:40 PM UTC+12, David wrote: Yes, I agree with you. It would take about 1 1/2 to 2 months to develop the website for a full time developer according to the website developing company. It would take them 5 months. If you can weather the storm financially, you probably will be rewarded handsomely. On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Brett Taylor <[email protected]> wrote: Hmm... shares don't pay for rent and groceries. Brett On 19/04/2013, at 3:14 PM, David <[email protected]> wrote: Hi, Michael. Thank you for your reply. Yes, I agree with you, but at the moment, all I can offer the developers are shares of the company. The end result will be amazing. I'm sure the developers will be well off financially. Continued employment will be no problem, because this website is a precursor to another website I want to develop. The revenue from this website will suffice to build the next website. So in regards to continued employment, that will be no problem. On Friday, April 19, 2013 8:47:38 AM UTC+12, Michael Robinson wrote: Yes good developers will need salaries and some assurance of continued employment. On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:30 AM, Berend de Boer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> "David" == David <[email protected]> writes: David> I'm trying to start a startup company, and I need David> developers. Hi David, This seems like you need at least $500,000 to get started. You got that amount of money? -- All the best, Berend de Boer ------------------------------------------------------ Awesome Drupal hosting: https://www.xplainhosting.com/ -- -- NZ PHP Users Group: http://groups.google.com/group/nzphpug To post, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe, send email to [email protected] --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NZ PHP Users Group" group. 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