No problem. You are always welcome.

> Am 26.11.2019 um 14:07 schrieb Robache Hervé <[email protected]>:
> 
> Thanks Torsten, I didn't notice this point in CIBA.
> 
> Sorry about asking a so silly question.
> 
> Hervé
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Torsten Lodderstedt [mailto:[email protected]]
> Envoyé : mardi 26 novembre 2019 11:33
> À : Robache Hervé
> Cc : Joseph Heenan; [email protected]
> Objet : Re: [OAUTH-WG] Question regarding RFC 8628
> 
> Hi Hervé,
> 
> the flow you outline is equivalent to CIBA 
> (https://openid.net/specs/openid-client-initiated-backchannel-authentication-core-1_0-ID1.html).
> 
> RFC8628/device grant type and CIBA differ as follows:
> 
> - RFC8628 provides the client with an URL for the authorisation process
> - CIBA requires the client to provide a user identifier to the AS/OP, the AS 
> in turn uses an out of band mechanism to communicate with the user
> 
> best regards,
> Torsten.
> 
>> On 26. Nov 2019, at 09:26, Robache Hervé <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear all
>> 
>> Thanks again for your clarifications. After discussion with the French 
>> community, we think that a full decoupled flow could be the following one
>> 
>> <image002.png>
>> 
>> From my perspective, this flow  is very similar to RFC8628 or CIBA, except 
>> the following difference: instead of providing the customer with the 
>> authentication URI through the third party, the bank notifies directly the 
>> customer on a specific device or mobile app.
>> 
>> Do you have any thought on this flow?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance
>> 
>> Hervé
>> 
>> De : Robache Hervé
>> Envoyé : lundi 18 novembre 2019 15:21
>> À : 'Joseph Heenan'; Torsten Lodderstedt
>> Cc : [email protected]
>> Objet : [OAUTH-WG] Question regarding RFC 8628
>> 
>> Thanks Joseph
>> 
>> I agree with you. There should be no issue when the URL is registered during 
>> the TPP app installation.
>> 
>> From my perspective, this URL should be passed during the authorization 
>> request within the [redirect_uri] field.
>> 
>> By the way, most of the French banks will use Oauth2 AC and not OpenId 
>> Connect. I guess that the sequence diagram is roughly the same, isn’t it?
>> 
>> Best regards
>> 
>> Hervé
>> 
>> De : Joseph Heenan [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Envoyé : lundi 18 novembre 2019 14:49
>> À : Torsten Lodderstedt
>> Cc : Robache Hervé; [email protected]
>> Objet : Re: [OAUTH-WG] Question regarding RFC 8628
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Thanks, Torsten.
>> 
>> 
>> On 18 Nov 2019, at 13:22, Torsten Lodderstedt <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Hervé,
>> 
>> looping in Joseph.
>> 
>> 
>> On 18. Nov 2019, at 21:17, Robache Hervé <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Torsten
>> 
>> Yes, we study this flow as well. Actually we consider the two following 
>> flows for a mobile-based authentication
>> 
>> -          DECOUPLED : via a RFC8628-derived or CIBA approach (as suggested 
>> by Rob)
>> -          REDIRECT : via the flow specified in the OpenId link you gave.
>> 
>> The main issue encountered so far is to give back the focus on the third 
>> party app. Third Parties fear that their app will be kept in the back of the 
>> mobile screen.
>> 
>> @Joseph: what’s your take on this concern?
>> 
>> In app2app, it really shouldn’t happen - if the device OS has not properly 
>> registered the universal link, the TPP website would open instead and 
>> authorization code can still be processed (though admittedly supporting this 
>> use case may require a bit more care to ensure session mixup attacks can’t 
>> happen).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This could happen when the TPP app [app link]/[universal link] is not 
>> properly registered or forwarded to the bank app.
>> -          In the REDIRECT approach this means that the authorization code 
>> cannot be forwarded to the TPP
>> 
>> I don’t really understand how the ‘app link’ would not be properly 
>> registered to the bank app. The universal link should be the same URL as for 
>> the redirect uri on the TPP website. Obviously if the TPP registers their 
>> redirect uri incorrectly with the bank the flow won’t work, but this applies 
>> equally to the web based flows, and it’s not the kind of problem you see 
>> occur on a production system.
>> 
>> The evidence from the UK so far is that drop-off rates (where the user does 
>> not successfully complete the authentication and return to the third party) 
>> are far lower for app2app compared to a normal oauth2 browser based redirect 
>> flow; I can’t put my hand on the actual figures right now but from memory 
>> around 5 times more users successfully completed an app2app flow than the 
>> usual web flows.
>> 
>> 
>> -          In the DECOUPLED approach it less critical since the TPP polls 
>> the bank and eventually gets its token once the PSU has authenticated.
>> 
>> But in the decoupled flow, the PSU first has to enter her PSU ID in order to 
>> allow the TPP to identity the PSU towards the ASPSP. This is less convenient 
>> and leaks PII.
>> 
>> Not necessarily the PSU ID, but generally something that can be used to 
>> identify the user. In theory it could be an ephemeral id, though in reality 
>> there’s all sorts of issues with implementing that, particularly on a ’same 
>> device’ flow. It’s definitely less convenient, particularly for the first 
>> TPP<->ASPSP interaction where the TPP will necessarily have to collect more 
>> info from the user than would be necessary in a redirect based flow.
>> 
>> The user also has to manually switch back to the TPP app at the end of the 
>> flow.
>> 
>> My general opinion is that for most use cases where the consumption and 
>> authentication devices are the same device a decoupled flow should not be 
>> used, as for that use case app2app presents a far better user experience - 
>> both in terms of the number of steps and the time taken to successfully 
>> complete all the steps.
>> 
>> Joseph
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> Ce message et toutes les pièces jointes sont établis à l'intention exclusive 
> de ses destinataires et sont confidentiels.
> Si vous recevez ce message par erreur ou s'il ne vous est pas destiné, merci 
> de le détruire ainsi que toute copie de votre système et d'en avertir 
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> N'imprimez ce message que si nécessaire, pensez à l'environnement.
> 
> This message and any attachments is intended solely for the intended 
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> If you receive this message in error, or are not the intended recipient(s), 
> please delete it and any copies from your systems and immediately notify the 
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