Dear all, Not chiming in one way or the other but some thoughts to ponder...
1. There is no such thing as a "free lunch". 2. If it is free, then either YOU are the product, or YOUR DATA is the product. Both are true when dealing with *any* corporate entity. Sponsorship is a means of gaining influence. Cheers and good luck to all in the spatial community! Dan On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 19:33, Cholena Smart via Oceania < oceania@lists.osgeo.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm on the 'this makes me uncomfortable' side of the fence here. I think > Andrew J has articulated it really nicely, and I strongly support the > notion that sponsorship should be carefully considered, not just the who, > but the how as well. > > I know ESRI focused on the travel grant this year, and have expressed a > willingness to do that again. The travel grant program is one of the most > prominent components of the conference, and it is built on the time, energy > and good will of a bunch of volunteers, as well as the financial > contributions from other sponsors and individuals, and the notion that you > might be able to buy influence and bypass all that goodness just > doesn't seem right. I'd hope not to see one financial sponsor receiving > more credit, rights, or recognition than any other contributor in this case. > > On a side note, I did hear a mocking comment from one of the ESRI reps at > the conference about the open sourceness of the conference, which really > hasn't helped me formulate a positive opinion. Anyway, I'm really glad this > was raised (thank you Andrew) - more than one conversation was had about it > at the conference, so it's great to see a more public discussion. > > Cheers, > Cholena > > > On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 09:28, Simon Nitz via Oceania < > oceania@lists.osgeo.org> wrote: > >> Happy to shoot this particular elephant! >> >> >> >> To be honest I have been shat on by certain NZ ESRI partners (note there >> is no direct ESRI presence in NZ, which may have made a difference) over >> the years - both as a vendor and as a potential client. So, I have no >> particular love for the NZ ESRI partners (although there are some >> exceptional individuals I talk to occasionally). >> >> >> >> I think it is fantastic that everyone is engaging in this conversation >> (even if my own views may not align with everyone) and we should certainly >> consider our communities views when looking at sponsorship in the future. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Simon >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Oceania <oceania-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> *On Behalf Of *Carrol >> Chan via Oceania >> *Sent:* Thursday, November 21, 2024 2:08 PM >> *To:* eli <elipucci...@gmail.com> >> *Cc:* OSgeo - Oceania <oceania@lists.osgeo.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [OSGeo Oceania] FOSS4G Hobart - Elephant in the room ESRI >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Even though I did not attend the conference this year I was definitely a >> bit taken aback when I saw ESRI as a sponsor and completely understand the >> feelings of those who have been burned not only by regional distributors, >> but also strong ESRI advocates. However, I believe our community >> (especially young and recent graduates) is made up of many 'converted' ESRI >> users, and in some cases we're basically preaching to the choir. I see this >> as a positive step, where it opens the opportunity to build a bridge to >> many individuals on the other side who are just as passionate about their >> work and looking to belong to a community as awesome as ours. At the end of >> the day, we all utilise what works for us, whether open or commercial. I >> definitely sound naive, but as Eli has mentioned, I've also learned to >> value and trust individuals over large (and sometimes scary) organisations, >> and I think it would be a step back to close our community off to >> organisations such as ESRI, which could also make individuals associated >> feel unwelcome. >> >> >> >> This discussion is incredibly valuable, and I hope it continues as it >> would be useful for the organising committee for next year's global FOSS4G >> in Auckland! >> >> >> >> Vinaka, >> >> Carrol >> >> >> >> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 11:12, eli via Oceania <oceania@lists.osgeo.org> >> wrote: >> >> Thanks to Andrew and everyone else who has contributed to this >> discussion. It seems to have stirred quite a reaction in the community, and >> it’s important to address it. >> >> As Alex pointed out, the committee's decisions are somewhat separate from >> the board. That said, I personally supported this initiative. Like many of >> you, I’ve been ‘burned’ by ESRI regional distributors, who in some >> countries actively try (and sometimes succeed) to poach potential clients. >> This creates significant damage to small companies like mine, all for a few >> thousand dollars that likely don’t even cover their Christmas party >> expenses. >> >> However, I was thrilled to have Kate Fickas as one of our (all female) >> keynote speakers. In my opinion, she’s an amazing person who genuinely >> cares about community building, as demonstrated through her Ladies of >> Landsat group and her ongoing activism on social media. She’s also a >> long-time friend of FOSS4G OO, having been a keynote speaker at our online >> 2021 conference, waking up at an ungodly hour to help us deliver quality >> content during a challenging time. It’s also worth noting that she was >> selected and agreed to be a keynote speaker for the Hobar conference before >> anyone considered having ESRI as a sponsor. >> >> From what I understand, Kate played a pivotal role in encouraging ESRI to >> sponsor the conference, as one of her roles is community building. I >> recognise that some may view this as an attempt from ESRI to interfere in >> our community, and I don’t want to be naïve and discard that possibility. >> Nevertheless, I tend to value and trust individuals over large >> organizations. My experience has shown that we shouldn’t judge people’s >> intentions and behaviour based solely on the companies they work for. >> >> We have talented, passionate members in our community who work for >> ‘questionable’ big companies, and we embrace them. If we cut off ESRI, >> should we also discuss those other companies? Perhaps, and I’d be happy to >> contribute to that conversation. But if we accept contributions from other >> companies, why not try to build a bridge with ESRI, which is undeniably >> doing good things with GDAL and in the OSM world? Additionally, having ESRI >> at our conference could attract to the OS world people and countries that >> primarily use ESRI software, like the Cook Islands. >> >> For these reasons, I was pleased that the committee decided to explore >> this bridge-building opportunity at the conference. I thoroughly enjoyed >> Kate’s keynote address and our discussions, as she had many interesting and >> practical ideas for empowering specific members of our community, including >> women and non-native English speakers. >> >> That said, what matters most to me is our community. I want it to thrive, >> grow, and feel comfortable and safe above all else. I’m more than willing >> to advocate against ESRI sponsorship in the future if the majority feels >> it’s a threat rather than an opportunity. OO exists because of all of you, >> and your needs always come first in our decisions. Let’s continue this >> discussion and see where it leads us. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Elisa >> >> >> >> Il giorno gio 21 nov 2024 alle ore 10:32 Alex Leith via Oceania < >> oceania@lists.osgeo.org> ha scritto: >> >> Hi Andrew >> >> >> >> Thanks for raising this, and I'm glad we're having the discussion. >> >> >> >> The local organising committee for FOSS4G SotM Oceania operates >> independently of the Board, even though some on the committee may be Board >> members. And as a committee, we talked a lot about decisions on keynotes, >> making sure we were bringing the right influence to the event, the right >> "vibe". We talked less about sponsors, really, and that was mostly >> delegated to the sponsorship team (which was mostly Nick Forbes-Smith and >> me). >> >> >> >> So, there are two separate items here, as you note. Kate Fickas was >> invited as a keynote speaker because she's been an incredible advocate for >> women and I think her keynote was really good. She spoke about specific >> initiatives, like how she worked with others in the USGS to get Virginia T. >> Norwood recognition as the person who actually invented Landsat! >> >> >> >> The Esri sponsorship came up separately, though I think Kate may have >> encouraged it. And Esri were able to justify their sponsorship internally >> due to their support for the SotM component of our conference. Kate >> acknowledged in her keynote that Esri uses open source software in their >> applications. It's worth noting that Esri supported the GDAL Barnraising >> efforts in a significant way (https://gdalbarn.com/.) >> >> >> >> Now, I know that some have been burned by Esri resellers doing things >> that are not good, and there's a lot of hard feelings around. I don't >> discount that at all. But I feel as a community we should keep the gate >> open. We need support from business to make the conference happen, and >> we'll need it for the global event next year in a big way. Other >> organisations that may sponsor may or may have imperfect reputations in >> some areas, but good people work in all of these organisations. I believe >> it’s reasonable to welcome sponsorship from any organisation, provided they >> agree to our code of conduct and other reasonable conditions set by the >> community. >> >> >> >> My honest personal take is that we should expect sponsors to not be >> anti-open source and not be anti-competitive. But I think we should hold >> ourselves to similar standards. The era of militant anti-proprietary >> software movements has largely passed, and in many ways, we’ve already won. >> As I mentioned during the “pitch a future” session at the conference, the >> open movement feels inevitable. Microsoft’s journey from labeling open >> source a “virus” to embracing it wholeheartedly is a prime example. Should >> we have rejected Microsoft's contributions to past events? >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> >> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 02:53, Andrew Jeffrey via Oceania < >> oceania@lists.osgeo.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I hope everyone that was able to attend the FOSS4G SOTM Oceania Hobart >> conference had a great time. I'm still very much bummed that I wasn't able >> to make it down there and my only start at the OO conference remains >> Melbourne in 2018. I plan on improving my numbers as best I can into the >> future, but from the outside looking in, it looked like all those that >> attended had a blast - well done conference committee and OO board. >> >> >> >> I am writing to the list because I have a question that has been bugging >> me ever since I talked to a colleague who attended the event. That question >> is "What's the deal with ESRI being a sponsor?". I have genuine >> curiosity when it comes to the decision process in having them on board. I >> understand these things take money to put on and the conference needs to >> turn a profit, a healthy conference makes for a healthy OO which allows the >> organisation to do many of the great things that they do. However, I think >> this sponsorship from ESRI should be reconsidered in the future. >> >> >> >> Just to be clear, I am not opposed to speakers who work for ESRI coming >> and talking, from all reports the keynote from Kate Fickas was amazing (as >> were all the keynotes from what I hear) and these are the industry people >> that we all crave to hear from - top job in landing that line up! But as >> for sponsorship I feel that ESRI is putting their brand on a community that >> a lot of us turned to when looking for refuge from them. >> >> >> >> I acknowledge that my opinion on this is biased as a QGIS advocate and >> trainer. But something about this just feels off! I don't see what's in it >> for the FOSS4G community having ESRI involved in our conferences, to me it >> looks more of a cheap way for them to buy some good news without doing >> anything to improve the relationship with the FOSS4G community. >> >> >> >> However, I know I wasn't there, and I could be wrong about the whole >> thing. Maybe the overwhelming opinion is that it's a good thing and this is >> a step in the right direction? I would be interested in hearing what people >> think and even hearing from someone on the conference organising committee >> that has more knowledge about this. Is this something the conference would >> do again? Is there a limit to their involvement? What would have happened >> if they were a platinum sponsor and got the primary logo placement + verbal >> mention at opening and closing of the event? >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Andrew >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oceania mailing list >> Oceania@lists.osgeo.org >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> *Alex Leith* >> >> m: +61 419 189 050 >> >> https://auspatious.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oceania mailing list >> Oceania@lists.osgeo.org >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oceania mailing list >> Oceania@lists.osgeo.org >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oceania mailing list >> Oceania@lists.osgeo.org >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >> > _______________________________________________ > Oceania mailing list > Oceania@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >
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