It is even more trust for our free and open source software also - in this case it is our *time* that becomes the technology we all share and enjoy.
It is something we can do a bit better on as a foss4g community, both with service providers contributing (as in the gdal example) but also as individuals with testing and feedback. It takes a lot of effort to make things go. The rest of the IT industry has moved on to open source as a default. We no longer benefit on the rest of the industry for open source advocacy. Example: Easy test for companies and public institutions that promote foss4g - do you have a clear contribution policy for your employees? If not you are missing out on *control*, and the community not as robust from a *sustainability* perspective. I do appreciate the work that Howard does to support gdal as an example for our community of what sustainability looks like. We are also trying to be a bit more transparent with GeoServer in 2024. Cheers - - Jody Garnett On Nov 21, 2024 at 3:58:18 PM, Dan Carmody via Oceania < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear all, > > Not chiming in one way or the other but some thoughts to ponder... > > 1. There is no such thing as a "free lunch". > > 2. If it is free, then either YOU are the product, or YOUR DATA is the > product. > > Both are true when dealing with *any* corporate entity. Sponsorship is a > means of gaining influence. > > Cheers and good luck to all in the spatial community! > > Dan > > On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 19:33, Cholena Smart via Oceania < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I'm on the 'this makes me uncomfortable' side of the fence here. I think >> Andrew J has articulated it really nicely, and I strongly support the >> notion that sponsorship should be carefully considered, not just the who, >> but the how as well. >> >> I know ESRI focused on the travel grant this year, and have expressed a >> willingness to do that again. The travel grant program is one of the most >> prominent components of the conference, and it is built on the time, energy >> and good will of a bunch of volunteers, as well as the financial >> contributions from other sponsors and individuals, and the notion that you >> might be able to buy influence and bypass all that goodness just >> doesn't seem right. I'd hope not to see one financial sponsor receiving >> more credit, rights, or recognition than any other contributor in this case. >> >> On a side note, I did hear a mocking comment from one of the ESRI reps at >> the conference about the open sourceness of the conference, which really >> hasn't helped me formulate a positive opinion. Anyway, I'm really glad this >> was raised (thank you Andrew) - more than one conversation was had about it >> at the conference, so it's great to see a more public discussion. >> >> Cheers, >> Cholena >> >> >> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 09:28, Simon Nitz via Oceania < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Happy to shoot this particular elephant! >>> >>> >>> >>> To be honest I have been shat on by certain NZ ESRI partners (note there >>> is no direct ESRI presence in NZ, which may have made a difference) over >>> the years - both as a vendor and as a potential client. So, I have no >>> particular love for the NZ ESRI partners (although there are some >>> exceptional individuals I talk to occasionally). >>> >>> >>> >>> I think it is fantastic that everyone is engaging in this conversation >>> (even if my own views may not align with everyone) and we should certainly >>> consider our communities views when looking at sponsorship in the future. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Oceania <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Carrol >>> Chan via Oceania >>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 21, 2024 2:08 PM >>> *To:* eli <[email protected]> >>> *Cc:* OSgeo - Oceania <[email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [OSGeo Oceania] FOSS4G Hobart - Elephant in the room ESRI >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> >>> Even though I did not attend the conference this year I was definitely a >>> bit taken aback when I saw ESRI as a sponsor and completely understand the >>> feelings of those who have been burned not only by regional distributors, >>> but also strong ESRI advocates. However, I believe our community >>> (especially young and recent graduates) is made up of many 'converted' ESRI >>> users, and in some cases we're basically preaching to the choir. I see this >>> as a positive step, where it opens the opportunity to build a bridge to >>> many individuals on the other side who are just as passionate about their >>> work and looking to belong to a community as awesome as ours. At the end of >>> the day, we all utilise what works for us, whether open or commercial. I >>> definitely sound naive, but as Eli has mentioned, I've also learned to >>> value and trust individuals over large (and sometimes scary) organisations, >>> and I think it would be a step back to close our community off to >>> organisations such as ESRI, which could also make individuals associated >>> feel unwelcome. >>> >>> >>> >>> This discussion is incredibly valuable, and I hope it continues as it >>> would be useful for the organising committee for next year's global FOSS4G >>> in Auckland! >>> >>> >>> >>> Vinaka, >>> >>> Carrol >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 11:12, eli via Oceania <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks to Andrew and everyone else who has contributed to this >>> discussion. It seems to have stirred quite a reaction in the community, and >>> it’s important to address it. >>> >>> As Alex pointed out, the committee's decisions are somewhat separate >>> from the board. That said, I personally supported this initiative. Like >>> many of you, I’ve been ‘burned’ by ESRI regional distributors, who in some >>> countries actively try (and sometimes succeed) to poach potential clients. >>> This creates significant damage to small companies like mine, all for a few >>> thousand dollars that likely don’t even cover their Christmas party >>> expenses. >>> >>> However, I was thrilled to have Kate Fickas as one of our (all female) >>> keynote speakers. In my opinion, she’s an amazing person who genuinely >>> cares about community building, as demonstrated through her Ladies of >>> Landsat group and her ongoing activism on social media. She’s also a >>> long-time friend of FOSS4G OO, having been a keynote speaker at our online >>> 2021 conference, waking up at an ungodly hour to help us deliver quality >>> content during a challenging time. It’s also worth noting that she was >>> selected and agreed to be a keynote speaker for the Hobar conference before >>> anyone considered having ESRI as a sponsor. >>> >>> From what I understand, Kate played a pivotal role in encouraging ESRI >>> to sponsor the conference, as one of her roles is community building. I >>> recognise that some may view this as an attempt from ESRI to interfere in >>> our community, and I don’t want to be naïve and discard that possibility. >>> Nevertheless, I tend to value and trust individuals over large >>> organizations. My experience has shown that we shouldn’t judge people’s >>> intentions and behaviour based solely on the companies they work for. >>> >>> We have talented, passionate members in our community who work for >>> ‘questionable’ big companies, and we embrace them. If we cut off ESRI, >>> should we also discuss those other companies? Perhaps, and I’d be happy to >>> contribute to that conversation. But if we accept contributions from other >>> companies, why not try to build a bridge with ESRI, which is undeniably >>> doing good things with GDAL and in the OSM world? Additionally, having ESRI >>> at our conference could attract to the OS world people and countries that >>> primarily use ESRI software, like the Cook Islands. >>> >>> For these reasons, I was pleased that the committee decided to explore >>> this bridge-building opportunity at the conference. I thoroughly enjoyed >>> Kate’s keynote address and our discussions, as she had many interesting and >>> practical ideas for empowering specific members of our community, including >>> women and non-native English speakers. >>> >>> That said, what matters most to me is our community. I want it to >>> thrive, grow, and feel comfortable and safe above all else. I’m more than >>> willing to advocate against ESRI sponsorship in the future if the majority >>> feels it’s a threat rather than an opportunity. OO exists because of all of >>> you, and your needs always come first in our decisions. Let’s continue this >>> discussion and see where it leads us. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Elisa >>> >>> >>> >>> Il giorno gio 21 nov 2024 alle ore 10:32 Alex Leith via Oceania < >>> [email protected]> ha scritto: >>> >>> Hi Andrew >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for raising this, and I'm glad we're having the discussion. >>> >>> >>> >>> The local organising committee for FOSS4G SotM Oceania operates >>> independently of the Board, even though some on the committee may be Board >>> members. And as a committee, we talked a lot about decisions on keynotes, >>> making sure we were bringing the right influence to the event, the right >>> "vibe". We talked less about sponsors, really, and that was mostly >>> delegated to the sponsorship team (which was mostly Nick Forbes-Smith and >>> me). >>> >>> >>> >>> So, there are two separate items here, as you note. Kate Fickas was >>> invited as a keynote speaker because she's been an incredible advocate for >>> women and I think her keynote was really good. She spoke about specific >>> initiatives, like how she worked with others in the USGS to get Virginia T. >>> Norwood recognition as the person who actually invented Landsat! >>> >>> >>> >>> The Esri sponsorship came up separately, though I think Kate may have >>> encouraged it. And Esri were able to justify their sponsorship internally >>> due to their support for the SotM component of our conference. Kate >>> acknowledged in her keynote that Esri uses open source software in their >>> applications. It's worth noting that Esri supported the GDAL Barnraising >>> efforts in a significant way (https://gdalbarn.com/.) >>> >>> >>> >>> Now, I know that some have been burned by Esri resellers doing things >>> that are not good, and there's a lot of hard feelings around. I don't >>> discount that at all. But I feel as a community we should keep the gate >>> open. We need support from business to make the conference happen, and >>> we'll need it for the global event next year in a big way. Other >>> organisations that may sponsor may or may have imperfect reputations in >>> some areas, but good people work in all of these organisations. I believe >>> it’s reasonable to welcome sponsorship from any organisation, provided they >>> agree to our code of conduct and other reasonable conditions set by the >>> community. >>> >>> >>> >>> My honest personal take is that we should expect sponsors to not be >>> anti-open source and not be anti-competitive. But I think we should hold >>> ourselves to similar standards. The era of militant anti-proprietary >>> software movements has largely passed, and in many ways, we’ve already won. >>> As I mentioned during the “pitch a future” session at the conference, the >>> open movement feels inevitable. Microsoft’s journey from labeling open >>> source a “virus” to embracing it wholeheartedly is a prime example. Should >>> we have rejected Microsoft's contributions to past events? >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 at 02:53, Andrew Jeffrey via Oceania < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> >>> I hope everyone that was able to attend the FOSS4G SOTM Oceania Hobart >>> conference had a great time. I'm still very much bummed that I wasn't able >>> to make it down there and my only start at the OO conference remains >>> Melbourne in 2018. I plan on improving my numbers as best I can into the >>> future, but from the outside looking in, it looked like all those that >>> attended had a blast - well done conference committee and OO board. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am writing to the list because I have a question that has been bugging >>> me ever since I talked to a colleague who attended the event. That question >>> is "What's the deal with ESRI being a sponsor?". I have genuine >>> curiosity when it comes to the decision process in having them on board. I >>> understand these things take money to put on and the conference needs to >>> turn a profit, a healthy conference makes for a healthy OO which allows the >>> organisation to do many of the great things that they do. However, I think >>> this sponsorship from ESRI should be reconsidered in the future. >>> >>> >>> >>> Just to be clear, I am not opposed to speakers who work for ESRI coming >>> and talking, from all reports the keynote from Kate Fickas was amazing (as >>> were all the keynotes from what I hear) and these are the industry people >>> that we all crave to hear from - top job in landing that line up! But as >>> for sponsorship I feel that ESRI is putting their brand on a community that >>> a lot of us turned to when looking for refuge from them. >>> >>> >>> >>> I acknowledge that my opinion on this is biased as a QGIS advocate and >>> trainer. But something about this just feels off! I don't see what's in it >>> for the FOSS4G community having ESRI involved in our conferences, to me it >>> looks more of a cheap way for them to buy some good news without doing >>> anything to improve the relationship with the FOSS4G community. >>> >>> >>> >>> However, I know I wasn't there, and I could be wrong about the whole >>> thing. Maybe the overwhelming opinion is that it's a good thing and this is >>> a step in the right direction? I would be interested in hearing what people >>> think and even hearing from someone on the conference organising committee >>> that has more knowledge about this. Is this something the conference would >>> do again? Is there a limit to their involvement? What would have happened >>> if they were a platinum sponsor and got the primary logo placement + verbal >>> mention at opening and closing of the event? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Oceania mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Alex Leith* >>> >>> m: +61 419 189 050 >>> >>> https://auspatious.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Oceania mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere! >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Oceania mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Oceania mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oceania mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >> > _______________________________________________ > Oceania mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania >
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