I don't know of an internal tool (wudele is only for simpler
single-queation votes), but can set up a poll today. Something like:

Q1: How should WOW vote on the movement charter?
- Yes
- No
- No vote

Q2: What comments should we leave? (We will combine + summarize as many
points from members as we can in the space provided)

🌍🌏🌎🌑

On Fri, Jul 5, 2024, 2:35 AM Stephane Coillet-Matillon <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I agree broadly with your take SJ, we should make a short comment as to
> what could be more palatable, but this being said, how do we formally set
> the UG’s position one way or the other? Is there some internal voting tool
> we could use?
>
> On 2 Jul 2024, at 22:16, Samuel Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Thanks both for these thoughts!   I also don't want to "just" say yes or
> no, but those are the options.
> We can leave a detailed comment about what we actually want to see.  Maybe
> we draft that collaboratively?
>
> Stephane writes:
> > TL;DR: too complicated; structurally unable to address any type of
> challenge.
>
> I agree with this assessment for now. Overall engagement in these matters
> has dropped steadily since 2018. Creating a new body that's likely to
> struggle but will take up the time of another 25-100 people, may be
> depleting a critical resource.  My preference is not to 'fake it till we
> make it', but to make simple clear steps that play to our strengths, solve
> explicit problems, and don't further divide us. Iterating on and
> strengthening a much simpler + more focused charter/council could build
> shared identity, and feel like moving from success to success.  On this
> issue, to me that suggests voting "No" with a detailed, constructive
> comment rather than "Yes" with such a comment.
>
>
> *Longer thoughts*:
>
> Even at the fully-subsidized WM Summit, people complained it was hard to
> make time to participate without an additional stipend. Not many attendees
> had experience or appetite to run a new parliamentary bureaucracy [except
> those already employed by affiliates, who would be ineligible].  I proposed
> simplifications
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sj/Design_chats/Charter/en> to the
> charter at the time; 8 people found me to share comments in person, but
> none left comments or edits online.  (I would have been just as happy with
> postive or negative edits; but *no* edits suggests a lack of energy for
> real drafting of policy or process texts)
>
> Participants all wanted more say in global decisions, for various reasons
> (including wanting more say in their own budget growth), but there was an
> odd sense of dependency.  At the end of the Summit, a working group was
> formed to organize the next Summit in two years' time.  They nominated a
> spokesperson to report to the audience. He said, and I swear I did not
> hallucinate this, "We are excited to start planning the next summit. First
> we need the WMF to provide a staff facilitator to help us schedule our
> meetings and keep notes."
>
> In contrast, the editors on the projects are quite independent, but are
> not that interested in nebulous governance issues. (perhaps like many on
> this list ;)  The unaffiliated community hasn't given much feedback up til
> now, and should be part of the next step of the process.  We must upgrade
> our global self-governance if we want the projects to evolve and thrive...
> but we have to work up to that.
>
> Things we need:
> a) Some rebalancing of resources across the movement.  The example
> championed by Brazil is a good one, we need more like that.
> b) Larger affiliates need more stable funding commitments.  Like 3-year
> commitments that can be revised down in line with all budgets if there's a
> global shortfall.
>    --> We don't need a charter for these things; but an interim group that
> pushes hard on global allocation percentages.  The WMF has already
> committed to having a body that could do this, in place by January.
>
> Problems:
> c) The council as currently written is a new bureaucracy, accountable only
> to itself and its new time-consuming election process.
> d) The latest charter sets up the council to implement and enforce a new
> global strategy... something no one really asked for.  It's unlikely to go
> well.  (Read cynically, this is a way for the council to force WMF to
> change its plans. Not a good start to trust-building.  Under
> "Responsibilities" for WMF, *but not for affiliates*, the Charter reads "*The
> Wikimedia Foundation should align its work with the strategic direction and
> global strategy of the Global Council*" )
>
> Problems that may be irreversible:
> e) The current charter is impossible to update.  Any edits require 50
> people to support the change on Meta, plus months for translation +
> announcement + full-movement ratification.  Of course an edit could change
> the amendment clause... but policy-creep suggests this won't happen.  It
> makes no sense to *start* with the sort of red tape that will one day
> grind things to a halt.
> f) The worst outcome in my view is that we somehow create a new class of
> self-perpetuating 'paid global bureaucrats' who become a new power bloc,
> with its own problems and conflicts, without solving existing problems.
>
> Sam.
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 12:00 PM Stephane Coillet-Matillon <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ok, I’ll bite (I’m in a bit of a rush so apologies in advance if the tone
>> seems curt. Not the intent, but emails often come out as such)
>>
>> My first concern is that I still don’t know what the exact problem is
>> that this charter is trying to solve. If it is to restore some balance
>> between Chapters/UG on one hand and the Foundation on the other hand
>> (basically undo what Sue Gardner did 15+ years ago and spread money
>> around), I’m not convinced at all: no matter how we frame it, the WMF’s
>> main mission is to support the tech that makes the whole movement exist in
>> the first place, and it is in some respects struggling at that. Except for
>> Wikidata/Wikibase (managed by WMDE; and possibly Kiwix as it spun off from
>> WMCH), I don’t see chapters/UG having brought much to the table in that
>> regard. Could it be that they could not because they did not have the
>> resources? Well, that’s what someone writing an AI/crypto pitch deck would
>> say, but I’m not convinced.
>>
>> So what is left when all this is said and done is this charter being a
>> fight for the « proper » allocation of money, and there is plenty of
>> literature to explain that there will never be enough of that. Whatever the
>> problem, it won’t be solved. In fact, the Brazilians have been *very *smart
>> in pushing their requirements for a bigger focus on Global South users
>> (Global Majority is not a good term, so don’t @ me), and it really did not
>> require having 100 people sitting on some sort of council to get things
>> moving forward.
>>
>> Which brings me to the Global council, the one thing that really rattles
>> me. There is a structural risk in putting people in charge only because
>> they demonstrated their love and participation in the project rather than
>> because they have specific skills/vision needed to give directions to a
>> Foundation spending 100 millions each year. We already have that, and
>> though I like them as people I also remember
>>
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