I'm not a fan of user preference hotkeys. Makes it hard to jump from desk to desk and use tools without breaking stuff.
I'm really ok with being veto'd on this one. Ctrl-Q, Ctrl-W live on! :) -- Jeremy On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Daniel Wexler <[email protected]> wrote: > The standard cross-platform, widely used convention is, as Larry says, > ctrl-q to quit the app, and ctrl-w to close the current document (i.e. image > in iv), but keep the app open. I would not be in favor of using any other > convention in iv, even with a dialog. > > One option is to add saved, per-user hotkeys, which would allow individuals > or companies to assign different defaults without affecting the standard > behavior. > > > On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Larry Gritz <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> itview isn't used at all outside of Sony, right? (If it were, this would >> be a pretty strong argument.) >> >> A couple incarnations of iv ago, I did indeed use ESC to exit, and I >> personally loved that feature and wished that ESC was used to exit across a >> wide variety of apps. But it isn't, so eventually I changed it (thus >> adhering to the "principle of least surprise"). >> >> We used those old iv's as live displays for renders (via sockets, as I >> hope we soon do with OIIO's iv as well), so that iv session may have had the >> last 10 renders you did, and the current job, which you were carefully >> annotating and comparing against each other. An inadvertent exit was pretty >> annoying, because repeating the command line that launched it (actually, it >> would have been launched by the renderer) would not have restored the >> session. >> >> I suppose one way around that is for an "exit" event (for whatever key >> it's bound to) to bring up an "are you sure?" or "save?" dialog if there are >> unsaved images or live sessions. (Maybe we did this, I don't remember now.) >> If this were done, I probably couldn't object strongly if people preferred >> ESC to exit (especially people not biased by itview muscle memory). Is this >> something that others want as well? >> >> >> >> On Apr 14, 2012, at 1:50 PM, Jeremy Selan wrote: >> >> > I know itview isn't widely used outside of Sony, but it does the esc >> > to exit full screen, and esc to exit the app when not in full screen, >> > and it's awesomely convenient. >> > >> > It would be annoying in larger apps no doubt (nuke, maya, etc), but in >> > a light-weight image viewer I've found it uber convenient. (Which is >> > why I added the ticket). ;) Note that itview didnt used to have this >> > feature, but was only added upon recent artist request, and I've been >> > totally sold. (FYI, Esc to exit is also in addition to the typical >> > exit hotkeys which people may be more used to). >> > >> > -- Jeremy >> > >> > On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Larry Gritz <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Deepak, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I'm very leery of changing UI >> >> without a principled reason. I know there was an open ticket with these >> >> suggestions, but I think we were still discussing whether there is >> >> precedent >> >> for these particular key assignments. >> >> >> >> Luckily, it's a very short patch, so I won't feel too guilty that you >> >> spent a lot of time on this. But in general, I think it's a wise use of >> >> your (and anyone's) time to do a "design review" by email before actually >> >> implementing a change in UI behavior, public APIs, or other key core >> >> technology. >> >> >> >> OK, so let's just do that here. >> >> >> >> I'm against ESC exiting the app on several grounds: (1) it's easy to do >> >> accidentally; (2) we already have a hot key (Ctrl-Q, or Cmd-Q on Mac) that >> >> does the same thing, and it's a widely accepted standard hotkey for that >> >> action across a large number of apps (and, by the same token, ESC is not >> >> generally used to exit apps); (3) perhaps most importantly, I think it's >> >> very confusing to have "modal" hotkeys, e.g., ESC does something >> >> inconsequential and easy to reverse when full screen, but totally >> >> destructive to the session when not in full screen -- that's terrible for >> >> cognitive/muscle memory. >> >> >> >> As far as function keys for full screen mode and fit to window, I note >> >> at least one potential disadvantage to this plan: those hotkeys are at >> >> least >> >> mnemonically assigned now (to 'F', which can easily be remembered for >> >> "Full >> >> screen" and "Fit window"). And many other apps use Ctrl-F/Cmd-F for full >> >> screen. On the other hand, many apps use Ctrl-F for "Find", so this >> >> argument is not as strong as the one for Ctrl-Q for "Quit". But any way >> >> you >> >> look at it, there's no easy-to-remember connection between F2 and Full >> >> Screen, or F4 and Fit To Window. >> >> >> >> BUT... I will happily entertain a counter-argument to any of these if >> >> you can show either that proposed changes bring us in line with a widely >> >> accepted standard across apps that our users would already be familiar >> >> with, >> >> or that our current hotkeys are conflicting with a standard (for example, >> >> if >> >> we had used Ctrl-W for "Full Screen", that would conflict with the >> >> widespread use of Ctrl-W for "Close Window"). >> >> >> >> What does "widely used" mean? I'm primarily interested in popular, >> >> cross-platform, image- or graphics-related apps that are likely to be >> >> familiar with our core user base of VFX and Animation professionals. Some >> >> that naturally come to mind are: Photoshop, Maya, Nuke, Katana. That's >> >> not >> >> a comprehensive list, of course. And of course, we should respect >> >> widespread standard key bindings that are not limited to VFX, such as >> >> Ctrl-Q >> >> Quit, Ctrl-W close Window, Ctrl-X/C/V for cut/copy/paste, Ctrl-S for save, >> >> etc. But for a function of iv that is not analogous to something done by >> >> those other apps, or if those other apps do not appear to have a >> >> consensus, >> >> it's probably better not to change things at all unless an argument can be >> >> made that the change will objectively improve usability or intuitiveness >> >> of >> >> iv. >> >> >> >> Discuss. Please feel free to list apps that do or do not use those >> >> particular hot key assignments. I can be easily swayed with evidence. >> >> >> >> -- lg >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 14, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Deepak Gopinath wrote: >> >> >> >>> This patch addresses issue #309 and makes the following additions: >> >>> 1. Esc key exits full-screen mode, if it is not in full-screen mode, >> >>> closes iv. >> >>> 2. F11 toggles full-screen mode. (F2 was suggested in the issue. I >> >>> felt F11 was a more 'popular' alternative.) >> >>> 3. F4 toggles fit to window. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> You can merge this Pull Request by running: >> >>> >> >>> git pull https://github.com/deepakg92/oiio master >> >>> >> >>> Or you can view, comment on it, or merge it online at: >> >>> >> >>> https://github.com/OpenImageIO/oiio/pull/319 >> >>> >> >>> -- Commit Summary -- >> >>> >> >>> * In the About message box, the OpenImageIO URL has been hyperlinked >> >>> to the homepage ie., http://openimageio.org >> >>> * Merge remote branch 'upstream/master' >> >>> * Merge remote branch 'upstream/master' >> >>> * 1. Esc exits full-screen mode, and if not in full-screen mode, >> >>> closes the application. >> >>> >> >>> -- File Changes -- >> >>> >> >>> M src/iv/imageviewer.cpp (8) >> >>> >> >>> -- Patch Links -- >> >>> >> >>> https://github.com/OpenImageIO/oiio/pull/319.patch >> >>> https://github.com/OpenImageIO/oiio/pull/319.diff >> >>> >> >>> --- >> >>> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: >> >>> https://github.com/OpenImageIO/oiio/pull/319 >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Oiio-dev mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> http://lists.openimageio.org/listinfo.cgi/oiio-dev-openimageio.org >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Larry Gritz >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Oiio-dev mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.openimageio.org/listinfo.cgi/oiio-dev-openimageio.org >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Oiio-dev mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.openimageio.org/listinfo.cgi/oiio-dev-openimageio.org >> >> -- >> Larry Gritz >> [email protected] >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oiio-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.openimageio.org/listinfo.cgi/oiio-dev-openimageio.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oiio-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openimageio.org/listinfo.cgi/oiio-dev-openimageio.org > _______________________________________________ Oiio-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openimageio.org/listinfo.cgi/oiio-dev-openimageio.org
