This is difficult to comprehend. We are very suspicious that it is a geometric
language. OK From a geometric language, there can emerge transcendent forms of
thought that are not the sum of the geometric parts OK but that is not matter.
and if you bend your mind to see the logic of circular causality loops, then
you can see how the emergent consciousness self actualizers what is that ??
itself from very simple things which are not the sum of its emergent self
creating structured matter??. That is, the tetrahedral symbols in our
quasicrystalline code live within the mind of God, if you will, and the mind of
God itself emerges from the simple and beautiful Mandela like geometric code.
Beautiful thought but how is this going to be connected to a scientific world
view?
Best
Søren
From: online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com
[mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Klee Irwin
Sent: 23. september 2016 01:27
To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com
Cc: da...@madmachinefilms.com; Stephanie Nadanarajah; Giovanna Brandi
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: I hope this provokes helpful thought
Vinod, the actual mechanism of action and process by which consciousness
emerges is not clear to anyone. However, we know enough about mathematics and
physics to understand that the combinatorics of a very small number of
oscillators is non-computable. And it is trivial that whatever consciousness is
involves many more particles than that. It is quite a magical concept that
things can emerge from simple processes where in the emergent information is
not for some of the simple actions.
You asked about the concept of quasicrystal leading to consciousness. I
encourage you to focus on the notion of language. It is a bridging word.
Consciousnesses operate in symbolic languages. And as I mentioned, I am not
speaking of human spoken languages. A symbol is a thought which represents
another thought or itself. Insectary, we call an object anything which can be
thought of. So you can have a self referential thought where the conscious
realization or actualization is that this equals itself. That is a
self-referential simple. Or you can have a simple where one thing represents
another. The very process of thought or awareness relates to symbolism. Any
ordinary flow of thought is a network, not necessarily linear, of symbols or
thought objects. And if we imagine the notion of a godlike collective
consciousness, we can think about to extremities. But one extreme, there is the
notion of everything this. This would be a consciousness so great that it is
capable of holding within its state of awareness every single thing that has
ever existed. In this state, which we can call everythingness, things are more
homogenous. To be aware of everything this is specifically to not be aware of
one thing more than another. For the collective consciousness to be in this
state of awareness it must choose to do so. And then there is the opposite
concept of nothingness. This too must be a choice of any consciousness. The
consciousness chooses to be aware of nothing. In set theory, this is
represented as the empty set. And the empty set itself is an object in set
theory, which is defined as any thing that can be thought of, as I mentioned.
So it is interesting that the idea of being in a state of awareness called
nothingness is itself a choice of a thought — the thought of nothingness.
The point in all these ramblings is to suggest that consciousness is always a
set of choices. And systems of thought or symbolic and so language is a lovely
word to generalize this notion.
Now, as a physicist seeking to find the theory of everything, I realized that
consciousness exists throughout the universe and does not need to be only in
biological brains made of atoms. And I am interested in bridging the western
materialist scientific view with the general Vedic view which is just a
placeholder word to represent various forms of thought, including the
aboriginal view. There is a similarity to me in many of these ontology's that
seem inspired by humans who have quieted their minds and got in touch with
their intuition and therefore with the rest of the universe.
Me and the rest of the scientists in our group wish to find a bridge that links
these two worlds of the western form of materialistic thought and the thought
form that at least you and me might agree is more enlightened.
We are very suspicious that it is a geometric language. From a geometric
language, there can emerge transcendent forms of thought that are not the sum
of the geometric parts. and if you bend your mind to see the logic of circular
causality loops, then you can see how the emergent consciousness self
actualizers itself from very simple things which are not the sum of its
emergent self. That is, the tetrahedral symbols in our quasicrystalline code
live within the mind of God, if you will, and the mind of God itself emerges
from the simple and beautiful Mondella like geometric code.
On Sep 22, 2016, at 6:17 PM, VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL
<vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com<mailto:vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Klee Irwin,
I had received your detailed response , as mailed from Nepal. I have been
contemplating on the contents of your mail. In the mean time some clarification.
Does concept of quasicrystal leads to the emergent of a collective
consciousness, from and out of individualized consciousnesses as emerging out
from brains of all individuals - humans and other organisms. Further, is this
process of emergent of collective consciousness accomplished by space and/or
time entanglement of 100 billions neurons in brain of each of 7.5 bilions
human beings present on Globe ignoring other organisms.
If my understanding above is correct, I shall pursue further since this concept
has many unresolved issues.
Regards
Vinod sehgal
On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Klee Irwin
<k...@quantumgravityresearch.org<mailto:k...@quantumgravityresearch.org>> wrote:
Hi, Søren. Thanks for the reference. I will email you a couple papers in
several days that we are working on, which will hopefully answer your question.
On Sep 21, 2016, at 10:39 PM, Søren Brier <sb....@cbs.dk<mailto:sb....@cbs.dk>>
wrote:
Dear Klee
I am aware that in Peirce’s semiotics the triadic and process defined symbols
grow by themselves when used. They are self-organized in their use by living
beings and as they draw on Firstness and Secondness in their own thirdness one
can say that manifest consciousness is a product of symbols. Actually Peirce
views the human self as a growing symbol and the universe as an argument
unfolding. But this view only works within Peirce’s triadic pragmaticism and
his synechism, tychism and agapism. What I admire in Peirce is the inner
consistency of his architectonic semiotic philosophy and science. It seems to
me that have a metaphysics, which is not so clear to me or I cannot understand
your view of the functional and ontological role of geometry.
Best
Søren
From:
online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Klee Irwin
Sent: 21. september 2016 17:10
To:
Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com>
Cc: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: I hope this provokes helpful thought
Yes exactly, it is geometry within consciousness. But the circularity of it is
that the Uber emergent consciousness self-actualizes itself from this code.
In the universe of all languages, there is one class of symbolism which is very
special. It is self referential symbolism. Only geometric symbolism can
participate in a geometric syntactical language of self-referential symbolism.
I could explain that if it is not apparent.
And it turns out also that geometric symbolism is perfect for creating a
geometric reality such as ours out of consciousness.
Maybe so many of the world's religions and indigenous peoples and people who
experience different forms of altered states of consciousness, from meditation
to hallucinogenics, and claim geometry is sacred are somehow intuiting
something true.
On Sep 21, 2016, at 8:22 PM, Søren Brier <sb....@cbs.dk<mailto:sb....@cbs.dk>>
wrote:
Dear Klee
I read you as you were able to produce a theory of consciousness from geometric
information. I was not aware that you operated with an objective idealism as
ontology, which I think makes much more sense. But my question is still pending
what does that have to with geometric information ? Is it geometry within
consciousness?
Best
Søren
From:
online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Klee Irwin
Sent: 11. september 2016 20:26
To:
Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com>
Cc: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: I hope this provokes helpful thought
Hi, Soren, I believe Stuart introduced us at TSC. Good to hear from you. You
did not nail down exactly how I am missing this. I sent this email to Vinod, in
case it can help clarify more of how I’m missing or not missing the
experiential aspect you speak of. I am admitting that there is something
“ineffable” at play. It is non-computable. There are many phenomena in nature
that are known to exist ontologically but which most physicists agree are
non-computable, even in principle. This is interesting. Clearly, consciousness
falls into that category of non-computable things. Penrose and many others have
expounded upon this. I am suggesting that the experience of consciousness and
recognizing symbolic meaning extends down to the Planck length and need not be
done by animals like us alone. The best candidate for such an entity is a sort
of pan-consciousness which is logical because there is no upward limit on
emergent consciousness and, given even time, whatever is possible is
inevitable. Such an emergent pan-consciousness from a self-organizing universe
of abstract information can also logically have multiple measuring or vantage
points, even down to the Planck length, just as we can have two eyes as
different vantage points. And this emergent thing, this universal
consciousness, can be the origin of the geometric code from where it began. Be
careful not to get stuck in the chicken or the egg false question. There is an
allowed mathematical logic where A causes B, which causes C, which causes A,
even though this is counter intuitive to our view of linear time.
I do not think I miss the need as you suggest. We just don’t understand one
another yet. Human’s don’t perceive this geometric information down at the
Planck scale. We have another aspect of experiential consciousness that is
emergent from the underlying system. We use eyes, ears and probably even
non-local psi information to form massive composite experiences of “redness”,
etc that are never the same experience twice. So in no way do I miss the subtle
nature of this composite form of experiential consciousness that you speak of.
Or at least I cannot see how yet from your short note.
Dear Vinod Sehgal,
Thank you for your response. We should have a discussion free of religion. I’d
like to comment as a scientist and philosopher. But if you tell me this or that
is correct or incorrect because you insist that Vedic philosophy is the master,
then of course, all I can do is back off and respect your freedom. But I cannot
discuss logic. So because I know you are scientific in addition to your Vedic
beliefs, I will speak to that scientific side. I am spiritual. And I believe in
much of the Vedic thought because I found it to be true via scientific inquiry.
But the issue we might have disagreement over is this: I do not like religious
teachings that say a God from outside the universe created everything. It’s
separatist and non-holistic. Instead, I see the oroboros view as logical, where
we create God and god creates us. We are emergent phenomena from simple things.
This you can surely agree. For example, the millions of chemicals in your body
are emergent from the self-organization of 81 stable elements. And those
elements are self-organizations of quarks and electrons, etc.
Self-organization and emergence have no upper limit. And consciousness emerges
from this self-organization. The top of the evolution is a collective God-like
universal consciousness. So I’m saying God emerges. Now, I’m also saying
everything is consciousness. Earlier I said “thought”. But they are not exactly
the same thing. Let us go backwards now… We can reverse down through the
cascade of emergent complexity back down through the human and the elements and
the quarks and electrons and down toward the Planck scale of reality, where the
pixilated “code” may exist. We are saying that there is a simple geometric
code. My group works on it with spirit-guides or discarnate beings interested
in helping mankind at this time. I myself came into this incarnation to do this
mission. That is all our philosophy or believe and can be discarded while still
following my logic. So we’ve reversed down to a geometric code. The symbols are
geometric shape. They are made of thought or consciousness. And they behave
according to language (code).
So where do these primordial thoughts of symbols and code come from? They nest
within the emergent mind of the universal collective consciousness.
PRETEND, you can imagine hypothetically that is true or at least a better model
than some Judeo-Christian type philosophy.
So, let us take inventory of what I’m saying:
1. Everything is consciousness.
2. This means physical things are consciousness as is God as are you and
me and the code I speak of.
3. Everything co-creates everything. But there are two special parts. The
tail and the head if you’re familiar with the oroboros image. And in this
metaphor, the head is the collective consciousness of the universe and the tail
is the simple code from which it emerges. The code cannot exist without the
collective consciousness. And the collective consciousness cannot emerge if not
for the rest of reality.
You said, “…there is no likelihood of its decoding”. We’ll I am made of the
collective consciousness and associated with beings not in physical form. It is
not 100% clear that your logic is airtight on why animals like us made of God
cannot know the nature of the code. Vinod, what if the code is gorgeously
elegant and simple? What if God was open minded to part of itself (us)
understanding this simple code that a child may be able to understand?
Note: consciousness cannot be computed. Almost nothing can. For example, you
are familiar with a Turing Machine. Even in principle, all the energy in the
universe dedicated to just one massive computer cannot compute the oscillation
interactions of the molecules in just one cubic mm of your skin. The notion of
non-computability is well known. It’s interesting too, philosophically because
non-computable things exist even though they cannot be computed. For example,
if a materialist neurologist who has a little math background can be shown why
even her notion of mechanical based brain originating consciousness cannot be
computed due to exponentially non-computable combinatorics. And yet, she will
marvel on how the emergent behavior, the thoughts and states of consciousness,
exist and yet cannot be computed.
So in my view, there is a spiritual type beauty. God’s consciousness as well as
yours, as a sub-space of that larger consciousness, is so fantastically
emergent and complex that it cannot be computed even in principle. That is a
sacred thought.
I’m not sure exactly why you think the code is so complex we cannot know it
(since you do not know the code or how complex it is). But the general trend in
this glorious universe is that things get simpler and are in evolutionary type
hierarchies. This concept is well established in Vedic philosophy, as you know.
What is not computable are the actions of the code.
Our view, scientifically, is that the God consciousness exists as a large
number of separate vantage points that choose in the code, like “eyes” or like
the idea that you can view through two different eyes at the same time, where
each as a different perspective or angle on the world. The collective
consciousness has many vantage points that play “choosing” roles in this
geometric code we speak of.
In any event, we intend to show that this quasicrystal code is rigorous and
will make scientific predations. It will unify the notions of collective
consciousness along with the unification of general relativity with quantum
mechanics. It will open the world’s mind eventually to our thinking. Clearly,
our thinking is 90% aligned.
From:
online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Søren Brier
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 4:29 AM
To:
Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com>
Cc: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL
<vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com<mailto:vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com>>
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: I hope this provokes helpful thought
Dear Klee
You completely miss the nature of the experiential consciousness we need in
order to perceive information and geometry.
Best
Søren Brier
From:
online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Klee Irwin
Sent: 10. september 2016 23:29
To:
Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com>
Cc: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL
Subject: [Sadhu Sanga] I hope this provokes helpful thought
Guys (and gals), I hope this helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILUlqd6O0MQ&feature=youtu.be
No need to worry about understanding the physics part of this presentation. The
salient point for our discussion forum is the notion of what information is. As
I’ve previously said, if we are to hypothesize that the Vedic and Aborigional,
etc. view that reality is made of thought or consciousness is true and is
related to the more materialist oriented view that reality is
“information-theoretic”, we can play with a thought:
If reality is made of consciousness, then apparently consciousness is behaving
mathematically – specifically according to some unknown geometric code, since
every possible measurement you can conceive of has a geometric component.
Accordingly, we may ask as scientists and philosophers, “Can we know that
geometric code (i.e., language) by which the universe expresses itself?”
As so many here have commented on during the last many months, there are
definitional discrepancies that sometimes make it appear that we are
disagreeing when, in fact, we have moved too fast without first synchronizing a
common set of definitions. For our group of mathematicians and physicists
working on this general problem, we deduce that consciousness deals in
information, i.e., awareness or thought. Even the choice of being aware of
“everything” or “nothingness” is itself an idea or thought or choice of what to
be aware of. In this way, we may be able to reconcile the terms “consciousness”
and “information”. One cannot have “information” without consciousness, choice
and observation (i.e., “measurement”). And so, one may discard the term
“information” temporarily for sake of clarity or finding connection between
English terms. That term may be replaced by “choice” or “choice of awareness”.
Now, in the universe of all thought or information, there is a special class of
symbolism or code with ultra-low subjectivity – geometric symbolism/language.
Such an abstract code made of thought can form thought itself, even notions of
emergent “universal consciousness”.
For those interested, this article published in JCR is interesting:
http://www.quantumgravityresearch.org/portfolio/hard-problem-of-consciousness/
Klee Irwin
www.QuantumGravityResearch.org<http://www.QuantumGravityResearch.org>
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Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions
Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
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Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016'
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue:
http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?:
http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions
Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."
group.
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Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com>.
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----------------------------
Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016'
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue:
http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?:
http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions
Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."
group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to
online_sadhu_sanga+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:online_sadhu_sanga+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
To post to this group, send email to
Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com>.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
----------------------------
Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016'
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue:
http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?:
http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions
Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."
group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to
online_sadhu_sanga+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:online_sadhu_sanga+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
To post to this group, send email to
Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com<mailto:Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com>.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
----------------------------
Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016'
August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue:
http://scienceandscientist.org/donate
Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?:
http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03
Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org
Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org
Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions
Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga
Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."
group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to online_sadhu_sanga+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/Online_Sadhu_Sanga.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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