Re: [Winona] Testing

[Gene Thiele]

Joliene makes some excellent points.  I hope she is not stigmatized by my agreeing with her (Heh, heh).    How indeed do we measure success?  Isn't that the heart of this issue?  The public seems demanding by insisting on measured results.  The institution appears to be resisting accountability by evading the establishment of standards, especially those established by the Feds.  But so much of public education is already dictated based on the acceptance of Federal funding, that one more intervention seems harmless enough.   One of the standards the Bush plan hopes to implement is that all sixth graders can read.  Is that amazing or what?  Thank the Lord we don't have that problem in Winona.  My six year old first grader reads a book to my wife or myself every night.  Six months ago she would look at the pictures in a book and make up her own stories.  Ms Hanson at Goodview School has bestowed upon my daughter the one skill she will use the rest of her life.  The one skill that is required for a lifetime of learning.  It seems to me we should measure that, and give Ms Hanson the credit she is due.  Imagine having to establish a goal of having all sixth graders be able to read!   Joliene also says that an alternative is required for those who don't pass.  But who really has failed when a percentage of the students pass, and a percentage of the students fail?  If we don't teach to the standards, change the standards to what we teach.  Isn't it that simple?   Much of the testing debate has also surrounded the testing of the, how should I say, less finite arts.  Well, I was an art major in college.   If you show an art student a work of Impressionism and a work of Cubism, I would expect them to be able to distinguish between the two.  In any class that involves a portfolio, the grading is subjective.  The testing should be objective.  In music class, a student may be asked to know the difference between a B-flat and Clef symbol.  That is very different from a subjective performance test.  How many notes can you miss and still pass?  The study of any subject really boils down to understanding the history of the subject, doesn't it?   In closing, for the teachers out there, how are we currently determining if a student passes or fails?  Or is everyone passing, only to different degrees?   gene thiele winona, mn       ----- Original Message ----- From: Joliene Olson To: onlinedemocracy Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:11 PM Subject: [Winona] Testing I would submit that Standardized Testing is a lot like Democracy, the best of bad choices.  Testing by some means, is necessary.  What everyone has difficulty with is 1) what areas require 'Mastery" and 2) how to measure it once everyone agrees on the objective. What does pass or fail look like.    Another problem is that when we deal with the problem in the abstract, we can agree that current testing methods have problems.  However, when solutions are considered we are often unwilling to agree to changes depending on how it affects our own Childs circumstances.  The problem defies simple solutions.   If I were to make a recommendation for change, it would be a continuous improvement type solution.        a) standardized tests are needed BUT we need to look at what the tests are currently  testing for and change them if necessary to reflect whatever it is agreed upon that we want our children to master at certain levels.     b) There MUST be an alternative for those who don't pass.  Perhaps it is retesting or perhaps it is evaluation by a more subjective system.  For example, actually looking directly at the work done by the child, through one to one discussion and questioning or review by a panel (trained to have a consistent view of what is pass or fail) to determine if "exceptions" are warranted and how to address them.   We can go on and on with examples and repeating words heard elsewhere and everywhere.  What action is possible?     1) who can look at the current tests and describe what they test for?     2) who can look at the current curriculums of the grade or topic being tested and identify what is different, left out, not currently covered etc.     3) who should and can determine WHAT EXACTLY the tests and the curriculum should be teaching and being tested for and finally,     4) who has the authority to CHANGE the test to reflect curriculum or visa versa, change the curriculum to match the tests.   Joliene Olson 507-454-1236 [EMAIL PROTECTED]