[Winona Online Democracy]
I'm glad someone brought up Oliver North. He's the perfect person to mention when talking about fears of attacks from within on our freedoms, civil liberties, and democratic government. In my opinion, he should be the poster boy for a military dictatorship campaign. He is the very reason we must be so vigilant about our civil liberties and democracy. Most governments in history that have ever achieved some level of democracy have had their democracies eroded or overthrown by a number of forces that are opposed to democracy. It's a common misperception that once a people achieves some semblance of a democracy that they are set. That once democracy is achieved, we can't go back. History shows that democracy is almost always overthrown, not only from enemies without but also from forces within. One of the most common forces are private armies that view themselves as somehow above or beyond the law of the common masses. These private armies first operate at the behest of super-wealthy elites then they morph into that group themselves. The Praetorian Guard in Rome is one of the more famous examples. First this "elite force" was created to protect the Emperor (security fears). Then it carried out the secret plans of the Emperor and the Patricians (read CIA, NSA, etc.). Then one day it would overthrow or kill Emperors and then pick the next Emperor themselves. In America, we are not quite there yet but look down the road we are headed. :-< In my opinion, Oliver North should still be in prison. (For the record, I also think Bill Clinton should have been impeached for lying under oath.) Instead he was pardoned of his convictions by Bush Sr. (big surprise!) and then even has the gall to run for the U.S. Senate and now he is a t.v. commentator. That says a lot about our democracy, media, and common people's beliefs about war and law. I respect Chris Nelson and his views. I'm not surprised he feels that way when you consider what most American are fed by the so called news. I have a deep respect for democracy and the Marine Corps. That is why what Oliver North did was so dishonorable and illegal. To review, he was a member of President Reagan's private army. He sold weapons to the "enemies" in Iran. He then turned around and used that cash to fund the (terrorist) Contras in Nicaragua. The super elite and President wanted this done because the democratically elected Congress had decided to cut off funding to the Contras. Incidently, the World Court and U.N. had also issued statements opposed to the U.S. support of the Contras. This is part of the reason our current political leaders won't support international law or courts because then the U.S. govt. may not be able to support/fund/arm it's own terrorists. Incidently, it's no suprise that in a little reported news story it was revealed that President Bush has just recently issued an Executive Order to block the release of papers from the era of President Reagan's term. What would be found if we could learn more about the real events in the Reagan White House of George Bush Sr., Dick Cheney, et al? Law allows these private presidential papers to be released after a set number of years. So much for the law. Finally, to come back to the original urban myth about Oliver North testifying and mentioning Osama bin Laden's name. Did the original urban myth start because someone honestly confused Osama bin Laden's name with the person he actually mentioned, Abu Nidal? After all, don't "they" all sound and look alike? It would not have been surprising if Oliver North had mentioned bin Laden's name. After all, the largest and most expensive CIA campaign (that we know about) was the semi-secret operation in Pakistan and Afghanistan to fund, arm, and support the likes of Osama bin Laden. That sure is some kind of moral, democratic, and successful foreign policy "we" have. :-< Dwayne Voegeli ======================= >Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:12:38 -0600 >From: "Mary Jean Kinzie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "On-Line Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [Winona] Fw: Learn from History!! >Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:14:06 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 >Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Precedence: bulk >Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; > >An e-mail from a friend that I thought worth sharing: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Kay Stone >To: Edgar & Dorla Johns >Cc: Iris Guynn ; Creta Stickney ; Connie Herrick ; Jean Kinzie ; Marylois >Skochdopole >Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:01 PM >Subject: Learn from History!! > > >> >> >> > Subject: FW: LEARN FROM HISTORY!! >> > >> > >> >> > >> You know, it's funny. I remember very vividly the Oliver >> > North hearings, >> > >> but did not recall the name of Osama bin Laden as the >> > terrorist that >> > >> North was threatened by. Has this slimeball been around >> > that long?. >> > >> >> > >> It's pretty evident, in hindsight that we should have >> > listened to OLLIE! >> > >> >> > >> I was at a UNC lecture the other day where they played a >> > video of Oliver >> > >> North during the Iran-Contra deals during the Reagan >> > administration. I >> > >> was only 14 back then but was surprised by this >> > particular clip. There >> > >was >> > >> Ollie in front of God and Country getting the third >> > degree. But what he >> > >> said stunned me. He was being drilled by some senator I >> > didn't recognize >> > >> who asked him; >> > >> 'Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home >> > security >> > system?' >> > >> >> > >> Oliver replied, 'Yes I did sir.' >> > >> >> > >> The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the >> > audience, 'Isn't >> > >> this just a little excessive?' >> > >> 'No sir,' continued Oliver. >> > >> >> > >> 'No. And why not?' >> > >> >> > >> 'Because the life of my family and I were threatened.' >> > >> >> > >> 'Threatened? By who.' >> > >> 'By a terrorist, sir.' >> > >> 'Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that >> > much?' >> > >> 'His name is Osama bin Laden.' >> > >> >> > >> At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but >> > couldn't >> > >pronounce >> > >> it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A >> > couple of people >> > >> laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. >> > 'Why are you so >> > >> afraid of this man?' >> > >> 'Because sir, he is the most evil person alive that I >> > know of.' >> > >> >> > >> 'And what do you recommend we do about him?' >> > >> >> > >> 'If it were me I would recommend an assassin team be >> > formed to eliminate >> > >> him and his men from the face of the earth.' >> > >> >> > >> The senator disagreed with this approach and that was >> > all they showed of >> > >> the clip. >> > >> >> > >> It's scary when you think 15 years ago the government >> > was aware of >> > >> Osama >> > >> bin Laden and his potential threat to the security of >> > the world. I >> > guess >> > >> like all great tyrants they start small but if left >> > untended spread like >> > >> the virus they truly are. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > > > ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> ><HTML><HEAD> ><META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> ><META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=GENERATOR> ><STYLE></STYLE> ></HEAD> ><BODY bgColor=#ffffff> ><DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#ff00ff size=2>An e-mail from a friend that I >thought worth sharing:</FONT></DIV> ><DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#ff00ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> ><DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- ><DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A >[EMAIL PROTECTED] href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Kay Stone</A> </DIV> ><DIV><B>To:</B> <A [EMAIL PROTECTED] >href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Edgar >& Dorla Johns</A> </DIV> ><DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A [EMAIL PROTECTED] href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Iris >Guynn</A> ; <A [EMAIL PROTECTED] href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Creta >Stickney</A> ; <A [EMAIL PROTECTED] href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Connie >Herrick</A> ; <A [EMAIL PROTECTED] href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Jean >Kinzie</A> ; <A [EMAIL PROTECTED] >href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Marylois Skochdopole</A> </DIV> ><DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 16, 2001 6:01 PM</DIV> ><DIV><B>Subject:</B> Learn from History!!</DIV></DIV> ><DIV><BR></DIV> ><DIV><FONT color=#800080>><BR>><BR>> > Subject: >FW: LEARN FROM HISTORY!!<BR>> ><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> You know, >it's funny. I remember very vividly the Oliver<BR>> > North >hearings,<BR>> > >>> but did not recall the name of Osama bin Laden as the<BR>> >> terrorist that<BR>> >> >>> North was threatened by. Has this slimeball been around<BR>> >> that long?.<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>> It's pretty evident, in hindsight that we should have<BR>> >> listened to OLLIE!<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> I was at a >UNC lecture the other day where they played a<BR>> > video of >Oliver<BR>> > >>> North during the Iran-Contra deals during the >Reagan<BR>> > >administration. I<BR>> > >>> was only 14 back then but was surprised by this<BR>> > >particular clip. There<BR>> > >>was<BR>> > >>> Ollie in front of God and Country getting the third<BR>> >> >degree. But what he<BR>> >> >> said >stunned >me. He was being drilled by some senator I<BR>> > didn't >recognize<BR>> >> >> who asked >him;<BR>> > >>> >'Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home<BR>> > >security<BR>> > system?'<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> Oliver >replied, 'Yes I did sir.'<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> The >senator >continued, trying to get a laugh out of the<BR>> > audience, >'Isn't<BR>> > >>> this just a little excessive?'<BR>> >> >> 'No sir,' >continued Oliver.<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>> 'No. And why not?'<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> >'Because the >life of my family and I were threatened.'<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> >'Threatened? >By who.'<BR>> > >>> 'By a terrorist, sir.'<BR>> >> >> >'Terrorist? >What terrorist could possibly scare you that<BR>> > much?'<BR>> >> >> 'His >name is >Osama bin Laden.'<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>> At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but<BR>> >> couldn't<BR>> > >pronounce<BR>> >> >> it, which >most people back then probably couldn't. A<BR>> > couple of >people<BR>> >> >> laughed at >the attempt. Then the senator continued.<BR>> > 'Why are you so<BR>> >> >> afraid of >this man?'<BR>> > >>> 'Because sir, he is the most evil person alive that I<BR>> >> know of.'<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>> 'And what do you recommend we do about him?'<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> 'If it >were >me I would recommend an assassin team be<BR>> > formed to >eliminate<BR>> > >>> him and his men from the face of the earth.'<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >> The >senator >disagreed with this approach and that was<BR>> > all they showed >of<BR>> > >> >the clip.<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>> It's scary when you think 15 years ago the >government<BR>> > was aware of<BR>> >> >> >Osama<BR>> > >>> bin Laden and his potential threat to the security of<BR>> >> the world. I<BR>> > guess<BR>> >> >> like all >great tyrants they start small but if left<BR>> > untended spread >like<BR>> > >>> >the virus they truly are.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >><BR>> >> ><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > ********************************************************** Dwayne and Denine Voegeli Dwayne: Social Studies Teacher Winona Senior High School 901 W. Gilmore Ave. Winona, MN 55987 USA Denine: Middle and High School Science Teacher in Plainview, MN Home Voice Mail: (507) 453-9012 School telephone number: (507) 454-9509 E-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Web Page: http://www.jarviscomputer.com/voegeli High School Web Site: http://wshs.luminet.net/ A Web Site About the City of Winona: http://winonanet.com/home.html "Education is not preparation for life, education is life itself." -- John Dewey *********************************************************** --------------- This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe All messages sent to the list must be signed with your actual name. Posting of commercial soliticitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems or questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
