On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:21 AM, Christian Grobmeier <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:15 AM, floris v <[email protected]> wrote: >> Op 18-10-2011 9:58, Ross Gardler schreef: >>> Apache projects are about avoiding "ceremonial acts"and all about getting >>> stiff done. >> >> A vote may be purely ceremonial, but it would kind of make clear how many >> people actually care enough for (or against? - dubious English, but you get >> the point) the project to vote. > > +1 > > Not sure if it is because of my limited english skills, but are we > really discussing to leave out the vote? > > The discussion around the forums was very hot. I don't think this is > pure ceremony to have a vote. Finally we are adding people to the PMC > with this vote too! >
Think of it this way: With Lazy Consensus, any single committer can veto a proposal. With a vote, all you need to approve is that 51% of voters approve. So Lazy Consensus is harder to reach. It is the stricter requirement. So if you already have consensus (lack of objections) then why have a redundant vote? I'm also concerned about this on policy grounds. What precedent does this set? For example, if at some future time, if I have a proposal to make, and I think it may have some opposition, may I request that it be voted on (approved by 51%) rather than go through lazy consensus (lack of veto)? Doesn't think encroach on the rights of the committer to veto a proposal? IMHO, we should be voting on things in only two situations: 1) Where the Apache process requires it, e.g., releases, new committers, etc. 2) Where prolonged discussion and good faith efforts have failed to reach a consensus and we're forced to have a vote to choose from alternatives I don't think we should allow a proposer to self-select a decision making method (a vote) that requires a lesser degree of consensus. If we allowed this, then wouldn't we decide every question via a vote? What proposer would not prefer to have the lesser requirement of 51% approval rather than risk a veto when calling for lazy consensus? -Rob
