see below...
On 10/19/2011 05:57 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk<[email protected]> wrote:
On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<[email protected]>
wrote:
On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave
Fisher<[email protected]> wrote:
I like your proposal. I have some comments inline.
On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing
lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo
mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution that
many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the best
way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead.
Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting
this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
migration*. But this approach is more graceful than the
default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just go
down one day and not recover.
Proposal:
If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition
plan, in one week I will do the following:
1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that
have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not
English
b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should
be pointed to.
c) the list's OOo/Kenai project.
No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see
where that info helps with the migration.
At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in
the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over.
(Language is another property.)
3) I will then draft, in English, a post to be send to the
above lists.
Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't run
into any issues about that.
Hi Kay,
Could you explain what the issue would be here? I was assuming I
would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the
notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any
questions. Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without
moderator approval? Do you know which ones?
Rob--
I may have been in error saying this about the user oriented lists. My
apologies. Marcus had once said the general announcements list was
moderated, and I somehow assumed maybe some of the others were also.
But according to info on the website:
http://www.openoffice.org/mail_list.html
this doesn't seem to be the case. So subscribing to all lists you want
to contact should work.
-Rob
The post will talk about the overall effort of
the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the
mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed
and to participate in the new Apache lists. Information on
how to subscribe will be provided. A shutdown date, for the
legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting
date.
It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general
timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about what
is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community
disagrees..
Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page)
Great. If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can
include that. Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link to
a wiki page where the latest info can be found. But there is no
technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we
move forward on independent pieces that we do understand. We've
done that already in other areas, like source code, issue
tracking, and soon the forums. And in general, it is to our
benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand,
especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a bad
situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable.
It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of
communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than
later.
It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes
are put in the context of the total migration the better.
4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into
other languages.
5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the
posts to the lists.
6) The note will be repeated a week later.
7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai
admins close the lists, per:
http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists
[ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying
put...sorrry!]
In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and
Apache Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An
easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to continue
on openoffice.org and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will
bounce and/or forward email.
I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or
indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy
lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers.
An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per
day. We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave
the spammers behind.
Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of
their @openoffice.org email address. We owe it to these people to
give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are
also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts.
We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If
someone cares enough about openoffice.org personal email addresses
we'll need volunteers to work out the details.
Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail
forwarding service. That is an independent issue that we need to
develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we
announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related
to the forwarding service.
It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing
page on the current status of the migration. What has moved, what
hasn't, what the general plan is. Something with a lot less
technical detail than we have on the wiki right now. A high level
summary that we can point users to.
-Rob
Regards, Dave
-Rob
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"There is no such thing as coincidence."
-- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
--
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MzK
"There is no such thing as coincidence."
-- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
