On 10/19/2011 2:04 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
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John,
The list [email protected] is proposed to be the replacement for
[email protected] and [email protected]. You can subscribe to ooo-users@ by sending an
e-mail from the e-mail address you want to be subscribed from to
[email protected] . If that succeeds, you will receive
a response from the list robot, [email protected] that tells
you what to do next to confirm your subscription.
I see that you were having trouble subscribing to ooo-users at the beginning
of September. Is that still not working for you?
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: John Boyle [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 13:33
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
On 10/19/2011 12:21 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<[email protected]> wrote:
Concerning subscriptions to many lists in order to make announcements,
etc., I think if you have an OpenOffice.org ID, it will go rather smoothly.
You can then use the web pages that provide subscribe buttons for blocks of
lists and work rather quickly. The archive view (useful in knowing how
[in]active a list is) also has a form for sending a message to the
just-subscribed list.
There may be some of these lists where the project is considered private
and subscription is moderated. I know there are lists, such as
announcement@ OO.o where the posts are also moderated.
FWIW, I'm only looking at "community" discussion lists. I'm not
touching any uni-directional "utility" lists, like ones that echo bug
reports, commit notifications, etc.
Here are the www mailing lists:<http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists>.
You must be logged in to see the Subscribe buttons and other information.
To make a post, go to the archive, open any message, and then select Reply
to List in the little pull-down on the form.
The Projects mailing lists are on the Projects A-Z tab
of<http://openoffice.org/projects>. Each project has its own page for
managing all of its subscriptions, subscribing, etc. (Again, I think you
must be logged in to OpenOffice.org to see everything that is on these
pages.)
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 05:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk<[email protected]> wrote:
On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<[email protected]>
wrote:
On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave
Fisher<[email protected]> wrote:
I like your proposal. I have some comments inline.
On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing
lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo
mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution that
many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the best
way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead.
Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting
this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative
migration*. But this approach is more graceful than the
default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just go
down one day and not recover.
Proposal:
If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition
plan, in one week I will do the following:
1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that
have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011.
2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with :
a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not
English
b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should
be pointed to.
c) the list's OOo/Kenai project.
No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see
where that info helps with the migration.
At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in
the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over.
(Language is another property.)
3) I will then draft, in English, a post to be send to the
above lists.
Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't run
into any issues about that.
Hi Kay,
Could you explain what the issue would be here? I was assuming I
would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the
notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any
questions. Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without
moderator approval? Do you know which ones?
-Rob
The post will talk about the overall effort of
the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the
mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed
and to participate in the new Apache lists. Information on
how to subscribe will be provided. A shutdown date, for the
legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting
date.
It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general
timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about what
is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community
disagrees..
Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page)
Great. If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can
include that. Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link
a wiki page where the latest info can be found. But there is no
technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we
move forward on independent pieces that we do understand. We've
done that already in other areas, like source code, issue
tracking, and soon the forums. And in general, it is to our
benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand,
especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a bad
situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable.
It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of
communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than
later.
It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes
are put in the context of the total migration the better.
4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into
other languages.
5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the
posts to the lists.
6) The note will be repeated a week later.
7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai
admins close the lists, per:
http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists
[ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying
put...sorrry!]
In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and
Apache Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An
easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to continue
on openoffice.org and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will
bounce and/or forward email.
I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or
indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy
lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers.
An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per
day. We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave
the spammers behind.
Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of
their @openoffice.org email address. We owe it to these people to
give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are
also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts.
We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If
someone cares enough about openoffice.org personal email addresses
we'll need volunteers to work out the details.
Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail
forwarding service. That is an independent issue that we need to
develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we
announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related
to the forwarding service.
It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing
page on the current status of the migration. What has moved, what
hasn't, what the general plan is. Something with a lot less
technical detail than we have on the wiki right now. A high level
summary that we can point users to.
-Rob
Regards, Dave
-Rob
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"There is no such thing as coincidence."
-- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
To Rob Weir, et al: I now have the wiki page bookmarked , but as of yet
I had no idea where to look to see what the recommended new user lists
or otherwise will be. I do not have any programming skills, I am
basically just a user of the product. I just happen to think if you're
going to do this combining And translating, that a list should be made
of the proposed new lists.I did not know there were 303 lists associated
with OOo! That is a surprise to me. I am mostly interested in keeping
some kind of users list active, so that I can learn more of how to use
the product. I got on the ooo-dev. list mostly by accident, as I wasn't
clear on how to just get on the new users list. I have stayed on this
list, as this way I learned what you are planning to do with the whole
program and it has been very interesting, although I have had to delete
some because it was beyond me and what I could do. So, can you give me
an idea of what the new lists will be called and how soon will we be
forced to change?:-)
To Dennis: Yes, but following the instructions from the message just
before this one, I am trying again!:-)
