On Monday 09 Jan 2012 06:51:26 Rob Weir wrote: [snip] > > > > Define the look and feel first, the logo should fit that. > > Answers first: > > What is our target Market > > What is our aesthetic, > > how do we want the market to percieve us. > > How do they percieve us now, > > do we want to change that perception, > > > > This is not about what the people on this list consider is aesthetically > > pleasing to them, but what the people who are going to download the > > software, think is best. > > It is useful to make a distinction between: > > 1) How we make decisions in this project > > and > > 2) How gather information to inform our individual opinions. > > In the end decision making in the project will be a factor of many > things, including who has the initiative to do the work. We make > decisions by consensus wherever possible (including "lazy consensus") > and by voting where necessary. Our opinions might be fed by surveys > and quantitative data, or by experience, or by debate on this list, or > by a myriad of other factors. > > So in the end, yes, the decision will be made by the opinions of those > on the list, specifically the PMC members. And in the end the success > of the project will depend on us making a large number of right > decisions, and a relatively small number of bad decision. But how we > decide is as important as what we decide.
indeed, you are stating the obvious that is true for any pyramid shaped organisation. > > > I would like to see a selection of branding elements, in particular: > > Pallet, logo and name, several of each and then survey our "customers" > > via the announce list to find their preferences. Any brand suggestions > > should include all of the above including an explanation that defines > > the aesthetic and where it positions the product in terms of the market > > as well as target market. > > I believe that the value of the logo is even more critical for those > who are potential users (the largest segment of the "target market"), > and therefore are not on our announce list. I made the point earlier that the announce@ooo list is our widest reach with the shortest lead time. I also made the point that going off that list to the wider audience, "a consummation d'voutly to be wished.." would cost money that we don't have, or a large community on the ground, also that we don't have, we have to make the best of a bad lot. So you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I made the offer to pick up a clipboard and do the hard yards, something that is a waste of time in isolation. To get a true sampling it has to be done world wide at around the same time. I asked if anyone else was prepared to do it as well and was met with a deafening silence. So announce@ooo is the next best track and it's something I can do solo. > > > Voting on the list is a particularly bad and limiting way to make these > > sorts of decisions, especially without any research whatsoever. > > I agree that research can only help us make better decisions. > > > It has been itterated on a number of occasions that Apache is about > > building communities, what better way to bring the community together > > than giving them the opportunity to participate in a meaningful way and > > demonstrating to them that the project actually cares about their > > opinions. > > I think that you are demonstrating just fine that anyone can join this > list and give their opinions. That is the sort of patronising attitude that will keep this community small. Imagine what it would be like if even a single percentage point of all OOo users joined this list and voiced their opinions. The operation of a List based decision process is predicated and relies on the user community staying away. Lists do not scale well, especially in an unsophisticated user community, a thousand messages a day would severely limit the ability for this list, and thus community, to function in any meaningful way. > > > I've put together a prenotification to go out on the announce list to ask > > people to participate in a survey and I'm putting together some questions > > for the respondents to that mail to answer. This would be a good > > apportunity to run this past a wider audience. > > It would be great if you posted your drafts to this list and/or the wiki. My apologies, I thought I had. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Survey+Design I'll stick to the wikl, too much gets lost on the maillist and I keep having to repeat myself. GL
