On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 12:54 +0800, Kevin Grignon wrote: > Great points in this thread > > Question: Does OO community have a history if working with academic or > professional groups to recruit volunteers? Developers, designers and beyond.
Hola Kevin, hmm - perhaps review the information at: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project It only covers a subset of your question, but an important one for this discussion IMO. //drew > > What is the protocol to recruit? > > Thoughts? > Kevin > > On Mar 29, 2012, at 12:23 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Rob, > > > > Well, the large talent pool is available here in India with millions of > > students graduating in Engineering,MCA(Master of computer applications). > > They all look for a project for their final semester. We can somehow try to > > attract them but they also try to see what is the benefit for them. Most > > of these guys they learn C/Java as part of their syllabus.But we need to > > retrain them as they generally just try to pass and not to be master of > > it. > > So we need to train them and make them useful. > > > > I have not seen the code base yet but based on the search results what i > > have understood is that it is implemented in > > > > Java, > > OOBasic, > > Cpp, > > Python, > > XSL, > > ooRexx > > > > From Freshers point of view they prefer the new languages like > > Java(ofcourse it is a old one but still new when compared to C/C++) or > > advanced stuff like Android. But still we can train people in C++ but it is > > easy to attract people for Java. > > > > If we know the exact requirement of people then we can try to gather the > > people and train them and make them good to contribute to the project. > > > > We have a software training institute and staff are from top MNC's.Lot of > > students approach us for Live Projects to gain some real experience. > > > > So we may try to accept the people and train them. We charge the students > > for training as we have to pay the trainers. > > Ultimately what students expect is an experience letter from Apache so that > > they can utilise it for future employment. In addition to issuing the > > certificate we should have their contribution mentioned in our website > > otherwise other job seekers will fake the cetificates. > > > > I think if the company(Apache) is ready to issue a certificate mentioning > > their contribution towards the project and list their contribution in AOO > > website then it should definetly work. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Ram, > > Im Software Systems > > > > > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:11:59 -0400, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:05 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I am sorry i am new to this dev mailing list. What is the real > >>> requirement. > >>> In what areas we need people for the next 1 year. What is the exact > > skill > >>> set needed. Let me see if i can computerof help you in anyway. > >>> i > >>> > >> Hi Ram, > >> > >> As you can probably tell, from reading the ooo-dev list posts, we're just > >> finishing up the OpenOffice 3.4 release. So it probably appears chaotic > >> right now, but this is just a sign of the high activity level as we > >> complete the remaining tasks for this release. > >> > >> We have not had a community discussion about "the next 1 year", so what > >> follows expresses my personal view only. > >> > >> Areas where we especially need help: > >> > >> - C/C++ programmers to work on the core OpenOffice code on feature > >> development and bug fixing. > >> > >> - There is some interest in developing some test automation based on a > > Java > >> testing framework that IBM said they would contribute. So someone with > >> skills in QA and Java could help with this. > >> > >> - There is plenty of work to do with manual testing, especially with test > >> case definition. It might make sense to start with defining the test > > cases > >> and execute them manually at first, but overtime migrate to test > >> automation. > >> > >> - We have had some discussion about making a more intelligent install > >> program, so it can bring down a small core program and then download > >> additional modules, like spell checkers, language packs, etc., when > > needed, > >> over the internet. > >> > >> I would also return the question and ask, what kind of things do you want > >> to do? The project works best, I think, when people are working on > > things > >> that they find interesting. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> -Rob > >> > >> > >> > >>> Thanks & Regards, > >>> Ram, > >>> Im Software Systems > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:47:30 +0100, Ian Lynch <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>> On 28 March 2012 02:38, Kevin Grignon <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Many great thoughts here. > >>>>> > >>>>> In addition to supporting the open source movement, perhaps we could > >>>>> market participation as a way to learn and develop skills. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Maybe a certificate for AOO development professional? Work out the key > >>>> skills needed to contribute to development and write a set of > >>>> indicative > >>>> assessment criteria. Get a mentor to verify the candidate's evidence > >>>> that > >>>> they can meet the criteria. If there was interest in it we have the > >>>> facilities to support it including secure on-line testing facilities > >>>> and > >>> a > >>>> Drupal system for managing coursework evidence which we would do as a > >>> free > >>>> contribution to the project. We'd just need help defining the criteria > >>> from > >>>> the most experienced developers. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> As a newbie, it appears that much our message is around what we need > > - > >>>>> which is essential to understand, however we may want to focus on why > >>>>> someone may want to join and help them realize their goals. > >>>>> > >>>>> For example, if someone is looking to demonstrate their skills and > >>>>> develop > >>>>> portfolio work products, then AOO offers a sandbox of opportunity. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> And a potential certification of skills. > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Some thoughts. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Kevin > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mar 27, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts > >>>>>> <[email protected] > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>> On 2012-03-19, at 08:41 , Rob Weir wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Any ideas and the best ways how we can improve in this area after > >>> AOO > >>>>>>>> 3.4 releases? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Lots, and these would complement the rather good ideas already > >>>>>>> proposed. > >>>>>>> What we did at OOo actually worked--to attract developers and > >>>>> contributors > >>>>>>> of all sorts. What worked against us I do not think I need spell > >>>>>>> out, > >>>>> but > >>>>>>> the cussedness of the code was not really the determining factor. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What really would help, besides giving would-bes a clean entry, is > >>>>>>> to > >>>>> have > >>>>>>> mentors, more or less do-able tasks that are identified as such. > >>>>>>> (We > >>>>> tried > >>>>>>> getting to this many times, and I strongly urged my erstwhile > >>>>> colleagues in > >>>>>>> this area for, uhm, years. Finally happened, and we got our to-dos > >>> but > >>>>>>> still not clearly identified according to level of difficulty. I > >>>>>>> can > >>>>>>> conceive of several here whose work would assist in the > >>>>>>> identification > >>>>> of > >>>>>>> tasks newbies could approach--and even post-newbies-and perhaps > >>>>>>> even > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> mentoring.) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Also, what helps tremendously is what we are doing already: > >>> presenting > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> community that is open, friendly, and generally has a good > > attitude > >>>>> about > >>>>>>> what it is doing and where it is going. There are millions using > >>>>>>> OOo > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>>> their primary ODF implementation, and those mostly include those > >>>>>>> who > >>>>> have > >>>>>>> come to it via the national or sub-national government agency. I > >>> think > >>>>> it's > >>>>>>> about time that they are looking to AOO for the next step. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I think the idea of a new contributor mentor is essential. This > > is > >>>>>> true > >>>>>> for coders, but also website, translation, documentation, test, UI, > >>>>>> etc. > >>>>>> What we have today is very much a "swim or sink" and "drink from > > the > >>>>>> fire > >>>>>> hose" approach. If someone is highly motivated, highly skilled and > >>>>>> persistent, and is able to withstand the apparent chaos of the > >>>>>> ooo-dev > >>>>>> list, and penetrates the noise and asks questions, and repeats > > their > >>>>>> questions until answered, then they might have a 50/50 chance of > >>>>>> contributing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But let's be honest with ourselves -- there are a range of projects > >>>>> someone > >>>>>> can contribute to. For would-be volunteers it is a buyer's market. > >>> If > >>>>> we > >>>>>> make it too hard to get involved and contribute, technically, > >>>>> procedurally, > >>>>>> socially, then we lose. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But getting new volunteers on board requires effort. If someone is > >>>>>> spending 100% of their time on their own features, then they have > > no > >>>>>> time > >>>>>> to help new volunteers become productive. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> One approach might be to define "essential skills" or "essential > >>>>> knowledge" > >>>>>> that a new volunteer needs to master in order to become productive, > >>> and > >>>>>> then a list of project members who are willing to help mentor new > >>>>>> volunteers to acquire those skills. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For example, for the website, the essential skills might be: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 1) Assume HTML/CSS, we're not here to teach that > >>>>>> 2) Help them get started with Markdown Text > >>>>>> 3) Help them use the CMS to generate patches > >>>>>> 4) Help them build website locally via the scripts > >>>>>> 5) Understanding the larger site design, including recurring page > >>>>> elements, > >>>>>> footers, etc. > >>>>>> 6) In parallel with above, understanding Apache, roles, decision > >>>>>> making, > >>>>>> lazy consensus, CTR versus RTC, what Infra does versus what the > >>> project > >>>>> is > >>>>>> responsible for, etc. > >>>>>> 7) Help them establish a record of contributions to become a > >>>>>> committer > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Anyone who has done the above can do 95% of what is needed to > > become > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> master of our website. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It would be wonderful if we had something like that, a check list > >>>>>> even > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> curriculum, for other common functions, as well as volunteers able > >>>>>> to > >>>>> take > >>>>>> on new project volunteers willing to help. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This is all an investment in the future success of the project. We > >>>>>> grow > >>>>> by > >>>>>> attracting new volunteers. But the investment is time spent on > >>>>> mentoring. > >>>>>> This would all be over-kill for the average Apache PMC of 8-12 > >>>>>> people. > >>>>> But > >>>>>> with 10 million lines of code, a PMC nearing 100 members, and the > >>>>>> largest > >>>>>> project at Apache, we need an approach to training new volunteers > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> works to scale. I think something like the above helps get us > >>>>>> closer. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -Rob > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And I can think of at least two, and probably more, national bodies > >>>>>> so > >>>>>>> interested. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Do these give us developers straight away? I don't know. The > >>>>>>> problem > >>>>> with > >>>>>>> OOo was, as [not] said ultimately political, not codical > >>>>>>> (comical?). > >>>>>>> Engaging these longtime users, as well as new ones, with the > >>>>> possibilities > >>>>>>> represented by this community, which is open and > >>>>>>> unencumbered--ought > >>>>>>> to > >>>>> be > >>>>>>> easier. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> My own approach is to focus on ODF and on the benefits offered not > >>>>>>> only > >>>>> by > >>>>>>> the AOO implementation but by its community. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -louis > >>>>> > >>> >
