Rob, I've submitted "QA introduction" page, pls help commit it. Thanks
2012/11/1 Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> > > > On 10/31/2012 11:36 AM, jan iversen wrote: > >> +1 to your 3 layer strategy. >> >> I have made a proposal for the wiki page, however I am not competent to >> fill in the tasks. >> http://wiki.openoffice.org/w/**index.php?title=Communication/** >> new_contributors&action=submit<http://wiki.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Communication/new_contributors&action=submit> >> >> I have NOT linked it in anywhere, but a natural link would in >> "participation" on the main page. >> >> Jan. >> > > OK, I will bail out from this for now, and see what else develops here. > You know what they say about "too many cooks"... :/ > > Looking forward to interesting results from both Rob and Jan. > > I will certainly help as I see a need. > > > >> On 31 October 2012 18:59, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:46 PM, jan iversen <jancasacon...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi. >>>> >>>> I think your md pages are SUPER....what I suggested was an additional >>>> >>> wiki >>> >>>> page (actually someone else called it postoffice) where we put small >>>> >>> tasks >>> >>>> that need to be translated / written etc. >>>> >>>> So I see your pages go hand in hand with Wiki pages, just too different >>>> levels of interaction with the community. >>>> >>>> >>> Right. So maybe when we do a wider "call for volunteers" we can >>> offer three tracks: >>> >>> 1) Sign up for ooo-dev and "drink from the firehose" (our only current >>> option) >>> >>> 2) A short intro on the wiki, one that doesn't exist yet, but maybe >>> someone can write one. >>> >>> 3) A longer self-paced intro on the website (what I'm working on) >>> >>> They are volunteers, so we can't force them to do anything. But we >>> can offer them a few choices. I'm happy to provide one of those >>> choices. Who wants to provide another? >>> >>> -Rob >>> >>> jan >>>> >>>> On 31 October 2012 16:59, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti < >>>>>>> >>>>>> pesce...@apache.org> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> New Volunteer Orientation root page: >>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/orientation/<http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from >>>>>>>> prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be >>>>>>>> overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> are >>> >>>> excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> average, >>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>>>> at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> perfect >>>>> >>>>>> for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>> >>>> mindset to understand in detail how things work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which >>>>>>> >>>>>> are >>>>> >>>>>> not? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say >>>>>>> >>>>>> that >>> >>>> they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in >>>>>>> parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. >>>>>>> It is entirely up to them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project >>>>>>> participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the >>>>>>> more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one >>>>>>> >>>>>> could >>> >>>> almost say that "Level 4" would be becoming a Committer. So you are >>>>>>> correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the >>>>>>>> mailing >>>>>>>> lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> that >>> >>>> much >>>>>>>> about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> give >>>>> >>>>>> something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> something, >>> >>>> but >>>>>>>> they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than >>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>> to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> be >>> >>>> perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> grab >>> >>>> POEdit >>>>>>>> and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> engagement, >>>>> >>>>>> but not earlier. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I >>>>>>> think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far >>>>>>> before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but >>>>>>> others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc. >>>>>>> And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the >>>>>>> earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing >>>>>>> >>>>>> around >>> >>>> PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any >>>>>>> public record of contribution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a >>>>>>> Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation >>>>>>> volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create >>>>>>> this problem, they merely remind us of it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> works >>>>> >>>>>> is >>>>>>>> not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> OpenOffice >>> >>>> strings, into Italian. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Could it be that we need a "practical" entry point for people who >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> want >>> >>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> help and just want to do it immediately? Placing these information >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> at >>> >>>> level >>>>>>>> 3 of the "Volunteer Orientation" seems too much for volunteers who >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> want >>> >>>> to >>>>>>>> jump in and do something (while, again, the orientation guide is >>>>>>>> excellent >>>>>>>> for a skilled, determined volunteer). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since "level 3" for translators does not exist yet, it may be too >>>>>>> early to say whether or not is "practical". (I hope it will be >>>>>>> practical). If we make it self-contained, it may be possible for it >>>>>>> be consulted on its own for someone who is not seeking deeper >>>>>>> engagement with the project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Rob >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Andrea. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rob, >>>>>> >>>>>> I still support this whole notion. But, maybe it would be better to go >>>>>> >>>>> with >>>>> >>>>>> more of a "checklist" style instead of the in-depth explanations you >>>>>> >>>>> have in >>>>> >>>>>> this document. >>>>>> >>>>>> What if you ported this to the wiki (Jan suggested this as well. >>>>>> >>>>> cwiki is >>> >>>> easiest for me but I have no object to wiki.openoffice.org) so those >>>>>> >>>>> of >>> >>>> us >>>>> >>>>>> that are interested can more easily contribute to this worthwhile >>>>>> >>>>> guide. >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Of course you are free to start whatever wiki page you wish. But I'll >>>>> be continuing with the mdtext pages I've started. This is based on my >>>>> experience with providing orientation to many of our Symphony >>>>> developers on how Apache projects work and how to participate in such >>>>> a community. This approach works. Other approaches might work for >>>>> others as well. But I'm going to give this a try. >>>>> >>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for starting this. It is needed. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >>> ------------ >>> >>>> >>>>>> MzK >>>>>> >>>>>> "Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never >>>>>> dealt with a cat." >>>>>> -- Robert Heinlein >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > -- > ------------------------------**------------------------------** > ------------ > MzK > > "Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never > dealt with a cat." > -- Robert Heinlein > -- Thanks & Best Regards, Yan Ji
