Well, in case it helps, I will share my experience.
It took a while to get the build working - often this was my own
carelessness and some of the time it was because I was a bit out of my
depth.
Whenever I had difficulties, I received help - lots of help and none of it
grudging. I now have an environment in which I can get the latest code,
build the interpreter, write changes, test and document them.
I don't understand everything I do and I'm still making newbie mistakes, but
I enjoy it.
I'm very pleased that the contributing community is small enough that
someone is keeping an eye on what I do.
Once I understood that we have an image that is precompiled, suddenly much
more of the code is accessible pretty much with my Rexx experience only.
As for the C++ it looks more like french to me than greek if you know what I
mean. I couldn't write it without help, but to a large extent I can read it
(I did have a short career as an assembler programmer many decades ago).
I also struggled with Tortoise, but once it was set up it was easy to use.
I probably would have failed to get it set up if I hadn't watched you (Rick)
set up SVN on my laptop in Austin.
I'm not used to the collaborative way of developing, hence my reluctance a
few weeks back to post my bit of development code that didn't work. It is
just something I'm getting used to.
In case people are worried that if they contribute anything at all then they
will have to work every night, that has not been my experience. Rick and
Mark have been really encouraging, and when my work and home life have
required all my time I have gone quiet for days or weeks and nobody has
nagged me.
At the moment I am not doing anything. Work has been crazy and I'm about to
go off-line for a couple of weeks, but I certainly intend to pick things up
when I get back.
As for learning C++, my feeling is that I still have a bit to learn doing
the sort of thing that I have been doing. A lot of the discussion that goes
on on this list regarding the core makes my ageing-head spin, but maybe in
time...
hth
Jon
2008/10/2 Rick McGuire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> It certainly was no joke. I'd love to have more people involved with
> the core interpreter code. I've made the "I'll teach you" offer on
> many occasions in full seriousness. I recognize that there are
> categories of things that I'm currently the the only person capable of
> addressing, but there are many things that I would expect any
> experienced programmer should be able to manage with a little
> direction. Mark, for example, is doing an excellent job of attempting
> to figure out interpreter problems himself...and I'm always there as a
> back up. A lot of times, he asks questions about things and even
> though I'm fairly certain about the cause the problem, I'll give him
> advice on how to debug further rather than jump in and just fix the
> problem myself. I don't do this because I'm lazy, but because that
> gives Mark a better grounding in what's going on. Of course, some
> times, the problem area will be a place where Mark won't have the
> background information yet to figure out the problem. In those cases,
> I'll step in, fix the problem, then explain after the fact what was
> going on and how the fix corrected the problem. I'd love to see more
> people with that sort of initiative. I was delighted when you jumped
> in to take a crack at adding some stuff to the RexxQueue class, even
> though it involved dealing with building some bits of C++ code. You,
> unfortunately, had to absorb a lot of pain to get there because you
> happened to be our first "newbie" to have to set up a Windows build
> environment. We learned a lot about doing that process working
> through your problems, so hopefully the next one will go a little more
> smoothly.
>
> C++ is not some mysterious thing involving magic incantations. It's
> just a programming language. And in the case of the ooRexx code
> itself, it's almost ooRexx with a different syntax, since the classes
> the interpreter is implemented in are the same ones you use in ooRexx
> code in the first place. Additionally, C++ is still a fairly
> low-level language. I'd expect anybody versed in assembler language,
> for example, to be able to pick this up easily with a little guidance.
> I'm capable of explaining quite succinctly explaining anything that
> C++ is doing in assembler terms. Once you understand what stuff is
> really doing, it becomes a lot less mysterious. I know there are a
> number of lurkers out there with assembler experience.
>
> Rick
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Sahananda (Jon) Wolfers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Rick,
> >
> > are you saying that you wish more people would get involved with the C++
> > routines at the heart of the interpreter?
> > I know you once offered to teach me C++ (I thought it was a joke at the
> > time).
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > PS: as ever I am really impressed by the amount that you guys manage to
> do
> > and the speed with which you do it, & for me, I feel that it goes without
> > saying that I am incredibly grateful.
> >
> > 2008/10/2 Rick McGuire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> And, as always, the best way to gain knowledge of the product
> >> architecture is to ask lots of questions on this list. I can pretty
> >> much count on one hand the number of questions that have been asked
> >> about how the code works internally, a statistic I find quite
> >> depressing, since that is a good indication on how many people are
> >> even interested in helping out.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Dan Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >> > Rick has a point. Acting on counsel I examined the SF site more
> closely
> >> > and I found an extensive list of things to do. I do not possess the
> C++
> >> > skills or the knowledge of the product architecture I would need to
> >> > participate with David, Rick, or Mark, but I did find something on the
> >> > list that I think I can do, and, Rick is correct, it will give me some
> >> > idea of how to work with the development environment.
> >> >
> >> > Now, if someone will just give me the userid and password I need to
> >> > actually enter the repository and look at it in Tortoise, I will
> >> > proceed. The message box is attached.
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Rick McGuire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 15:50
> >> > To: Open Object Rexx Developer Mailing List
> >> > Subject: Re: [Oorexx-devel] Socket.cls and StreamSocket.cls
> >> >
> >> > Yes, the solution is always "have the already overbooked core team do
> >> > more". I'm getting tired of that answer too.
> >> >
> >> > Rick
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Jack Woehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> Rick McGuire wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> The continued health of this project requires an active, growing
> >> >>> community.
> >> >>
> >> >> IBM let ObjectRexx off the leash about eight years late for that. If
> >> > ooRexx
> >> >> had
> >> >> been open sourced before Ruby came forward ... sigh ...
> >> >>
> >> >> It *is* a very small community and the language doesn't have a
> >> > specific
> >> >> mission.
> >> >>
> >> >> PHP does simple websites.
> >> >> Ruby does fancier ones.
> >> >> Perl does sysadmin and CGI.
> >> >>
> >> >> What does ObjectRexx address that would have people flying around the
> >> >> country to conferences
> >> >> and embracing it like they do for Ruby and Perl?
> >> >>
> >> >> The problem isn't so much that you need more of the techies who play
> >> > with
> >> >> OORexx already.
> >> >> The problem is that you (we) need to enunciate a mission for
> >> > ObjectRexx and
> >> >> go recruit more
> >> >> techies who stand behind such a mission into our little ObjectRexx
> >> > army.
> >> >>
> >> >> What can ObjectRexx do (aside from "be fun to program in") better
> than
> >> > the
> >> >> other
> >> >> open source languages with established communities? Answer that and
> >> > you
> >> >> answer
> >> >> our labor shortage.
> >> >>
> >> >> For me the answer is, "It's a very easy scripting language and
> >> > BSF4Rexx made
> >> >> it the
> >> >> easiest way to script Java." Until I started my own Open Source
> >> > Project
> >> >> PigIron
> >> >> to provide Java access to z/VM SMAPI I liked Object Rexx (since 1995)
> >> > but
> >> >> had never
> >> >> before found the value proposition to use it for anything real. Now
> >> > I've got
> >> >> a value
> >> >> proposition, this complete ObjectRexx interface to z/VM SMAPI that
> >> > started
> >> >> as simply
> >> >> a testing tool for the underlying Java code.
> >> >>
> >> >> In the meantime, Rick, are you leveraging the (admittedly few)
> >> > resources
> >> >> that are already
> >> >> at your disposal to try to get help?
> >> >>
> >> >> have you broken this down into some well-factored tasks/assignments
> >> >> are these tasks posted in the Tasks section of the ooRexx SourceForge
> >> > site?
> >> >> Do you have recruitment notices posted on SourceForge?
> >> >>
> >> >> Also, why don't we try to convince editor Jon Erickson to hook you up
> >> > with a
> >> >> Guru blog
> >> >> on Dr. Dobb's CodeTalk and you can publicize a bit and maybe draw
> some
> >> > users
> >> >> in there?
> >> >> I've certainly been mentioning ObjectRexx there, e.g. Calling Java
> >> > from Open
> >> >> Object Rexx
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe we can "start a buzz" as the youngsters say.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Jack J. Woehr # "Self-delusion is
> >> >> http://www.well.com/~jax <http://www.well.com/%7Ejax> # half the
> battle!"
> >> >> http://www.softwoehr.com # - Zippy the Pinhead
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
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