On 12/06/2012 07:35 AM, Lars Poetter wrote:
Look guy, we either provide open access to _all_ science and technology
at the lowest possible denominator to every human being on the planet or
this little Darwinian experiment called the human species is going to
come to a quick and very unceremonious end.
It is always suspicious if something is valid for _all_ whatever. And
mostly that is just wrong. The claim is often right, the wrong part is
that it would be valid for _all_ .
A lot of kings and royalty said the same thing in Europe about the
Declaration of Independence.
That whole thing about ALL and men created equal in the same sentence
with no stipulations really gave them problems. How outrageous they
thought.
I can see you feel the same way since I am not sure what you find
harmful about open access to all for humanity, with such a reply in a
project like open-graphics.
Perhaps you should reconsider if you are really human? If you don't
think you are, there is a time proven test which is frequently applied
to royalty in the history books, maybe I can help you out here.
For example, lots of royalty in Europe didn't consider themselves
actually men, but separate and above them, sort of like Gods. Sort of
like a lot of the government people many in Europe see walking around in
fine clothes and seated in fine leather chairs dictating to them what
kind of a card board box they should live in.
I think if you read the history of Europe you will find that this
question/distinction was usually settled for ALL humanity with a simple
axe to the neck for most of these "royalty". Low and behold I think you
will find in every case, they bleed just like me and everyone else on
the list.
How about that they were human after _ALL_.
Validity for this claim comes at the point of an axe, usually with lots
of human suffering behind it.
I can't think of a reason for denying ALL humanity with access to
science, technology.
Are you saying open-graphics isn't worth doing unless it can be limited
to a certain few?
And who will play "God" here with these decisions?
GNU V2 license doesn't play god but it does play fair.
The rules and the way for effective competition and fair trade is laid
out in how every piece of science and technology that is either enabled
with LINUX or how it was designed 10 years ago to how it is being
designed RIGHT NOW.
Linux is designed right now by Linus Torvalds. He is the only one that
decides what goes into Linux and what does not.
Well, LINUS holds the copyrights.
He doesn't hold the right to tell you what you can and cannot put into a
LINUX kernel.
In fact I have several LINUX kernels with various changes to them for
doing different things.
For example I have a LINUX kernel built with no I/O scheduler for SSD
systems. Linus didn't tell me I couldn't do that. It certainly isn't in
violation of the GPL V2 license. I did it because a I/O disk scheduler
is stupid in an SSD context and the application I was using it for.
I have LINUX kernels I built with my own modifications which I include
the source code and copyrights with products or changes I sell in labor
to my customers. BECAUSE that is the rules laid out by the GNU V2
license under which LINUS published the original kernel and I have made
a derivative work out of. But even then I only become another copyright
holder with a very small piece of the kernel.
Do I need to write LINUS for permission to do that? Not at all!
Perfectly fine, as long as whatever product I sell includes the source
code and build materials to produce the product.
So that is not the case, obviously and there are some really crazy
modifications for embedded systems all over the net you can get that
build your own LINUX kernel.
However, that is where the GNU Version 2 license comes in, and very
little has to do with what LINUS says.
Now, there is a clarification here, and what LINUS endorses to be in
_his_ LINUX kernel is certainly something I am sure he has strong
feelings about, and under the GPL V2 license he is entitled to them.
But that is LINUS's distribution of LINUX and he can certainly make that
clear on the kernel list.
Oh, and by the way, he does. :-) So if you don't like what is in
LINUS's kernel, fork the kernel and make your own build tree.
I do it everyday!
Perfectly legal too.
Every social form currently in existence should be redesigned around the
engineering direction and properties that are enforced using the GNU
Version 2 license. Equal opportunity for all, no barriers to
participation and excellence based on peer review and feed back is the
only technology allowed to live, because technology only has one purpose.
So Version 1 and Version 3 are also bad? The BSD license also gives
"equal opportunity for all" as does M$'s license. The Copyleft clause of
the GPL is a barrier for participation, at least for some people.
I think with respect to the community, and LINUX as a copyright, GNU
Version 2 was selected by LINUS.
You know he gave it some thought before he picked it and I am sure he
consulted with some about it.
So that is a question you will have to ask LINUS.
As for your other question about BSD:
BSD can provide equal opportunity for all, if it put rules in to enforce
contributions.
Since it does not, it clearly will not.
But in this case, I have to argue that it does not apply.
It is sort of like arguing that you are unhappy that you are a slave in
the GNU Version 2, because no other distinction exists ALL are. :-),
license which only permits equal collaboration. Sort of like slave
equality. :-)
I have no other way to describe a free for all like BSD, except as being
a useful slave for Royalty. People can whole sale take other peoples
work and use it, contribute to it, and not be required to publish it
back to the community and the license says, yep, its free and who cares
if it is fair.
There is nothing in recorded human history where people can just take
others stuff/labor without paying for it. That is the ultimate freedom
BSD allows you to practice.
In every recorded case in human history that sort of "freedom" has led
to tragedy however. GNU V2 License doesn't allow that because everyone
is a slave, and there is no royalty. From it scientists at CERN can get
serious work done, and I don't have to pay for crap kernel software.
Even better if it is crap, I probably made it that way and because of
what you might consider the unfree limitation of the GNU V2 license, I
have to publish my crap. People then yell at me that I am stupid
because they have to use, well...CRAP! Which I then have to fix it by
making it world class and once again, contribute those changes. :-))
Linux is in my phone, my router, my tablet, my desktop, and my customers
servers and desktops. It pervades the landscape because LINUX is
increasingly uncrap-like, or less crap like iPhone, OS X, or Windows.
If it was possible I would stick my brain with it as it provides me with
a job that I love.
(I have plush Penguins everywhere in my office, and under my Christmas
Tree because my office is central command to the Penguinista Open Source
Software Liberation Front. One of many Fronts in a world where BSD tries
to make you a slave, or Proprietary Software tries to make you an idiot.
This is all out war, and we may not win every battle but by God we will
win the war!)
So you do have less freedom under the GPL V2. Everyone is a slave. :-)
But, in certain cases one and only one, can be treated as royalty
because of the arguments this one can make to tell people to just F*ck
Off are well held and consistent with the GPL V2's goals and laws
towards fairness and equality for ALL humanity.
I will leave that part of the GNU V2 License to LINUS since he is
extremely well known for such classic arguments.
:-)
To serve the human race.
Right now technology is being used to destroy, crush and create war for
a bunch of damn greedy western institutions.
I don't want to destroy your view of the world. But part of the reason
for GPL Version 3 was to prevent the technology to be used for things
that the FSF does not like,.. And I have heard that the military also
uses Open Source Software, and not only your own army but those of other
countries too.
So if you are not joking, then please think twice before posting
statement about the live and death of the whole species.
This isn't a question of my world view, it is a question of law and
order and how things are right now. It isn't a world view that the GNU
Version 2 license and its application of labor has created LINUX.
That isn't a world view, it is a fact and it is serving the human race
in many capacities.
You have brought to light some unsavory kinds, tis true.
However, I would like to state my beef is with creating a fair economic
system with fair rules for all, not a utopia. Fair trade has been
replaced with Free Trade. Remember those Royalty I was talking about Lars?
Well these Royalty types are certainly using LINUX towards twisted ends,
as you have pointed out and they have continued to create problems in
humanity for a long time way before LINUX was around or came to pass.
But there is hope Lars. The creation of LINUX was done using a non
centralized authority or human community. It is called the Internet. In
essence, the application of LINUX and GNU rules of V2 has created a
system called the internet which has some interesting properties. One
that is relevant to this discussion is the ability for people to self
organize without central authority to accomplish a given task or produce
a product.
You know, this has governments around the world upset and in arms
because as many of the social systems developed around LINUX and the
rules embodied in the GNU Version 2 license have pointed something out
these governments don't like: Centralized authority isn't required to
solve truly monumental problems in science or engineering or what really
has them worried: economics.
In short, once a community with these rules reaches critical mass, we do
not need heavily centralized institutions anymore.
So you can bet the primary target of this royalty will be to do
everything possible to destroy the internet, and free software or any of
the social paradigms that enable it including, equality for all, equal
access to information.
"I can just see it now: This is Homeland Security, in order to protect
all of you we must destroy the internet! Please report any neighbor
using free software or anything not approved by our corporate sponsors
or this office. If they code something, say something!" :-)
But in my case I don't endorse version 3 of the GNU Public License
because once you understand the Version 2 form of the license,
everything else is pedantic.
For a project like open-graphics I think GNU Version 2 would be great,
and sufficient.
But GNU Version 3 is still young, and it is too soon to tell.
Maybe we _will_ have to end up specifying do not use this software for
weaponry to kill your fellow humans, because some people are really that
stupid.
I think it might be one of the reasons why the founding fathers of the
United States Declaration of Independence, now readily recognized by our
current regime to be terrorists, didn't specify in the Declaration it
was bad to kill people because if you adopt the principles of such a
declaration, that ALL are equal, it is self evident.
Just like GNU Version 2.
So yes, the WHOLE species, if we are to survive we will adopt economic,
governmental and education structures similar or identical to the ones
that started LINUX, built LINUX and currently sustain LINUX for what
over a decade now. Those rules laid out in competition by the GPL V2
license.
The alternative is a technocratic dictatorship like they have in Europe
where suicide is required for social "benefits", or slave labor
lifestyles for all in China where jumping off the building to your death
is part of your "benefits" package.
Lets not forget about the Good ole USA, where millions of people who
cannot pay their government Health Care will become automatic by default
debt slaves or criminals ripe for IRS imprisonment, whether they like it
or not.
JP Morgan and the rest of them getting fat off of food stamp programs.
Either way the future looks really bad and I think projects like
open-graphics each one of them, educate people to the challenges of
doing things in a different way without the current power structures
which are killing humanity and point to only one road: death, war and
more for the technocrats and less for ALL.
-gc
Best Regards
Lars
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