On 9/18/2013 8:17 PM, Tim Adye wrote: > Hi Jeffrey, > > Jeffrey Altman <jalt...@secure-endpoints.com> wrote on 16 September 2013: >> >> if you are experiencing undesirable behavior on paths located in the AFS >> name space then the afs redirectorcan be involved. if the path is local >> disk or CIFS then the redirector cannot b The Windows Multiple UNC >> provider simply will not send those file system operations to the afs >> file system. > > Yes, the problem is on my local disk (eg. C:\Program Files). It's just the > installation of OpenAFS that provokes it.
An installation of OpenAFS consists of: 1. two device drivers 2. the three shell extensions in both x86 and x64 variants 3. the network provider in both x86 and x64 variants 4. the authentication provider 5. the service 6. the smb pipe service emulators >> i can certainly believe that the explorer shell has bugs that are >> triggered by the mere existence of a non Microsoft file system. The >> explorer shell has a lot of hard coded assumptions that require NTFS or >> CIFS. this is part of the reason that their new ReFS file system is not >> supported on client systems. > > If the installer isn't messing with Explorer's permissions settings, then the > presence of the OpenAFS IFS does sound like the likely "culprit" for > provoking an Explorer bug. I have installed some other IFS systems on my > machine, but it looks like only OpenAFS causes the problem. what other IFSs have you installed? Are they network file systems? Do they provide all of the system components that OpenAFS provides? > Can I test this by uninstalling or disabling the OpenAFS IFS alone? I can > switch off all the OpenAFS programs (with autoruns and the Services control > panel), but the problem remains. It takes a full OpenAFS uninstall to cure > it. It would narrow down the problem if I can disable or uninstall just the > IFS and check if that is the crucial step. The device drivers can be disabled in the registry HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\AFSRedirector HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\AFSLibrary The "Start" parameter determines whether or not (and when) the driver is loaded. A value of "4" disables the device driver. The service will switch to SMB mode if the drivers are not available. SMB mode requires the "microsoft loopback" adapter be installed. The service is HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TransarcAFSDaemon >> it is also possible that another file system filter installed on the >> machine is altering the return code which prevents user account control >> from be triggered. however, it sounds like the real problem is that >> the explorer shell thinks the volume you are working on is readonly and >> therefore decides to hide the UI controls. > > The symptoms are a little different from a read-only device. For example, the > delete button is not greyed out, and attempting to delete a file still brings > up the "are you sure you want to move this to the recycle bin" prompt (if > delete prompts are enabled) before silently failing. I just checked with a > read-only SD card and the behaviour is different there. What are the differences in behavior as viewed by SysInternals Process Monitor? >> this would be an explorer shell bug which must be addressed by Microsoft. > > That does seem likely, but how to get them to do so? Tracking down a more > specific cause would probably help. I don't know the best forum/way to report > a Windows bug. Reporting bugs to Microsoft requires a Professional Support Contract for the operating system in question or payment for a support incident. > If it's not some combination of things on my specific system, then everyone > who installs OpenAFS on Windows 8 (64 bit? Standard Edition?) will hit this > really annoying problem. Is it just me? Does anyone else here see it? I was > "lucky" to spot that it appeared when I installed OpenAFS; many people might > not. I'm planning on upgrading to Windows 8 Pro, so I hope soon to see if the > issue is specific to the Standard Edition. None of YFSI's support customers have complained about this behavior. That being said, none of our support customers are deploying Windows 8 in a production end user environment. > > Thanks, > Tim. > >> Jeffrey Altman >> >> On 9/15/2013 10:03 PM, Tim Adye wrote: >>> Hi Jeffrey, >>> >>> Thanks for the information. >>> >>>> The only interaction between OpenAFS and the Explorer Shell is the "AFS >>>> Shell Extension" which provides the "AFS Context Menu", the "AFS >>>> Property Sheets", and "Mount Point and Symlink Overlay Icons". This is >>>> the functionality you would have disabled using "autoruns". >>> >>> Yes, I tried disabling all of those, but that didn't help. >>> >>> If, as you suggest, it isn't OpenAFS running, then there must be >> something that the OpenAFS installer and uninstaller do to affect Windows >> Explorer. I installed and uninstalled OpenAFS many times (often with no >> other action except for the reboot) and the problematic behaviour I >> described appeared if, and only if, OpenAFS was installed (whether running >> or not). >>> >>> Could there be some local policy or groups that are changed by the >> installer? I know that it adds the "AFS Client Admins" group, though that >> can't be it as the uninstaller doesn't remove the group. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jeffrey Altman [mailto:jalt...@secure-endpoints.com] >>> Sent: 15 September 2013 23:35 >>> To: Adye, Tim (STFC,RAL,PPD) >>> Cc: openafs-info@openafs.org >>> Subject: Re: [OpenAFS] OpenAFS installation messes up Windows 8 file >> access control >>> >>> Tim, >>> >>> I'm sorry you are experiencing a problem but the reason you didn't find >>> any changes that were made by OpenAFS is because OpenAFS doesn't make >>> any changes. >>> >>> The only interaction between OpenAFS and the Explorer Shell is the "AFS >>> Shell Extension" which provides the "AFS Context Menu", the "AFS >>> Property Sheets", and "Mount Point and Symlink Overlay Icons". This is >>> the functionality you would have disabled using "autoruns". >>> >>> Jeffrey Altman >>> >>> On 9/15/2013 4:08 PM, Tim Adye wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> The OpenAFS client installation is doing something nasty to the file >> access >>>> control on my Windows 8 system. After installing OpenAFS, I can no >> longer >>>> move, copy, or delete files with the File Explorer in local Windows >> folders >>>> that require administrator privileges. >>>> >>>> What should happen, and happens again if I uninstall OpenAFS, is that I >> get >>>> a pop-up message such as "File Access Denied: You'll need to provide >>>> administrator permission to copy to this folder". I can then then >> select >>>> "Continue" (perhaps needing an admin password) to copy the file. >>>> >>>> When OpenAFS is installed, there is no pop-up message and the copy >> silently >>>> fails. This occurs with drag-and-drop and Ctrl/C+X+V copy and move, and >>>> deleting with the "Delete" key or button. Oddly, the pop-up message >> does >>>> appear when creating or renaming a file or folder, so those operations >> still >>>> work. It is also possible to delete files from the context menu (which >> show >>>> the admin icon and don't normally require confirmation). >>>> >>>> This is a problem with Windows Explorer (now called File Explorer in >> Windows >>>> 8) and seemingly nothing to do with OpenAFS, except that it occurs >> whenever >>>> OpenAFS is installed. I can fix the problem by uninstalling OpenAFS, >> and the >>>> problem comes back when I reinstall OpenAFS. I tried disabling all the >>>> OpenAFS components with "autoruns" (and restarting), but the problem >>>> remained. So I guess it is some change made by the OpenAFS installation >>>> program. What changes does it make to the Windows Account Control and >>>> authorisation systems that might cause such an issue? I tried comparing >>>> registry dumps before and after uninstalling OpenAFS, but didn't see >>>> anything obvious. >>>> >>>> I used the standard OpenAFS IFS install and all the default options >> (all >>>> enabled, except integrated login), but it didn't help to disable the >> rest. >>>> >>>> I am using 64-bit Windows 8 Standard Edition (so I can't check for user >> or >>>> group policy changes, since that control panel requires Windows 8 Pro). >> I >>>> installed 64-bit OpenAFS 1.7.2600, but had the same problem with an >> older >>>> version, 1.7.0800, that does not give me this problem on a Windows 7 >> Pro >>>> system. So, it could be Windows 8 (vs 7) or Standard Edition (vs Pro). >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any ideas? I would be very grateful for any fix or >>>> work-around. With OpenAFS installed, it is extremely cumbersome to make >> any >>>> program file changes on my system. The only way I have to copy or move >>>> program files in Windows Explorer is by taking ownership and changing >> the >>>> permissions on all directories and files involved, making the move, and >>>> restoring the original permissions - a cumbersome and risky operation. >> Or >>>> else to do everything from the command-line from an Admin account. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tim. >>>> >>>> =========================== cut here ============================ >>>> Tim Adye t.j.a...@rl.ac.uk http://hepunx.rl.ac.uk/~adye >>>> ATLAS Group, Particle Physics Dept, Rutherford Appleton Lab >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > >
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