At 11:35 PM +1000 on 1/9/00, Paul Sutton wrote:
>>>Anthony: How about going to NNTP?
>>Mark: No thanks.
>
>Adrian: I'm with you on this.
>
>>If you want threading, gateway this list to that one on NNTP.
>
>Adrian: NNTP threading isn't all it's cracked up to be. We often change
>the topic of the conversation and should at that point change the
>subject, NNTP would still list it as the same disucssion.
If one conversation flows into another, IMO, it should be threaded with the
one htat started it. It more shows the way the conversation progressed.
If there is nothing at all simular, then a new message should be posted, at
which point the NNTP client will create a new thread.
>Adrian: yes. I believe we need to look at ways to do this best and
>experiment with different approaches. For this reason an NNTP server
>will be set up on the Linux box and a test forum will be set up there.
Agreed. And that forum will mirror this mailing list.
>Adrian: I've had problems with my subscription to the list and Scott has
>been very helpful with these. This was a side issue that I mentioned and
>unfortunately it seems to have become a big thing which it shouldn't have.
Yeh, well we still wouldn't have to deal with the people who can't manage
to unsubscribe from a mailing list, probably because they did not read
and/or keep the directions that said how to do so. I guarantee we'll get
plenty once we get big.
>Adrian: yes, mailing lists are capable of handling the same number of
>messages as a news server - the protocols are very similar.
No. NNTP has a major advantage: It can be browsed online. If a mailing list
gets 1000 messages, I have one choice: download. If a newsgroup gets 1000
messages, I can ignore them.
If a mailing list gets 10mb of attachments, I get to download them (ak!).
OTOH, if a NG does, I can ignore them. [Yes, I can -- and do -- configure
my email client for a maximum message size. But most people don't have that
option, and news is still better for that].
>>I don't fire up my newsreader, but I ALWAYS get email.
Hmmm... I do both. Sometimes I even read news more often.
>
>Adrian: Yes, moving to NNTP would make the discussion harder to access
>for most people (email is *far* more popular than news).
And Windows is far more popular than MacOS. And VB than HyperCard. And
roaches and gnats than humans. Let's not go to the popularity arguments.
There is no fundamental reason why anyone here can't fire up a newsreader
such as MTNW.
News is very popular too -- just consider the 10+ GB of bandwidth a full
newsfeed takes each day. That's hardly unpopular. [Note: We won't be
running a full newsfeed, or even a feed at all. Unless maybe we wanted
csm.hypercard]
>>Go for it. Set it up -- play with it. Take a few discussion threads over
>>there. But, don't mess with the lifeblood of the organizational forum.
>
>Adrian: That's exactly what will be done.
Agreed. I won't try to convince anyone to go news only until the proof of
concept has proven itself :) Ultimately, I don't think I'll need to.
>>Alain: Sounds like a commendable suggestion.
>
>Adrian: What would people like to see. We can probably do it.
Maybe we'd better ask Alain how much RAM and disk space this machine has. I
think we're now running:
Apache w/ PHP & modperl [webserver]
sendmail [an MTA]
majordomo [mailing lists]
INN [NNTP]
ssh [SSH for login]
telnetd [for those w/o ssh]
ftpd [FTP server]
cvs [code checkin/out]
rcs [Revision control system]
some webforum thing
some java chat thing
talkd [talk to each other]
fingerd [plans and such]
I'm guessing we'll wind up adding:
netatalk [AppleTalk]
afs [AppleShare IP]
Probably even:
nfs [Unix file sharing]
samba [Windows file sharing]
17 services off of one box. This should be interesting. Any IP yet, Alain?
>Adrian: Yes, chat isn't a plausible replacement for the list, but it will
>be useful for small groups working on a project together like me and
>Anthony when we are configuring the server. We will undoubtebly be using
>"talk" to communicate as we work and make sure we know what the other is
>doing.
Yes, no doubt we'll be using talk and/or write. Remember to `mesg y` :)
