>>Adrian: How about going to NNTP?
Alain: I am not against the idea but, when I suggested
something similar several months ago, the suggestion
was flatly rejected.
> Mark: No thanks. NNTP is spam rich,
> and majordomo isn't nearly as bad.
Alain: So I am told.
> Mark: And NNTP isn't "modern.". If we were to
> go to a different interface, I'd want to go into
> something NEW and BETTER.
Alain: Sounds like a commendable suggestion.
> (hint: http://www.forumsamerica.com/Macintosh/)
> Personally, I love what interaction.in-progress.com
> can do. I crave a chat with A.I.
Alain: The chats that I have visited were OK, I guess,
but they usually end up being superficial
conversations on mundane subjects. E-mail gives you
more time to ponder on what others write, and it
allows you enough time and continuity to compose your
responses thought-fully. And, of course, there is the
synchronous versus asynchronous tradeoff too (e.g. you
are temporally constrained with chats)
> Mark: Furthermore the type of interactions that
> occur on a mailing list generally don't make it
> to the news groups. More, "yea, right" and "trite"
> comments there.
Alain: I have heard this about news, too. It is
precisely the contrary of what I thought news groups
are all about. I thought it was a idea/document
publishing environment. Posts that are more like
essays and/or with replies that are editorial-like.
Scientific exchanges at the international-journals
level of discourse.
> Mark: Email allows for better, in-depth
> discussions, IMHO. Each has its purpose, but
> we need to be drilling down for deeper, richer
> content discussions.
Alain: Aleluia!
> Mark: That alternative server isn't a "production"
> one -- and I'd hate to take these discussions
> anywhere that wasn't a rock-solid host for months
> on end -- and we've got that here now.
Alain: Good point.
> Mark: That server seems to me to be a
> developmental box. It is great to have those
> resources for development -- but things get
> too goofy when doing double duties.
Alain: Another good point.
> Mark: I seen no problem nor worries about
> bounces, subscriptions, and admins getting
> ticked off here.
Alain: Adrian is indeed the only person that I am
aware of that has had such problems with our list.
> Mark: I think those are inflated assumptions
> that are NOT real.
Alain: Adrian is not a twit, Mark. If he says that he
has had such problems, then it is surely true.
> Mark: The grass isn't greener there, IMHO.
Alain: I have written this before but it bears recall
that it would be better (ultimately) to be completely
self-sufficient. Scott is still with us, now, but will
his commitment to hosting our mail waiver when the GUI
is completed and we focus our efforts on a free app
that will compete with MetaCard for the hearts and
minds of all those disenfranchised HyperCard fanatics?
You gotta like the fact that Scott/MetaCard is
generously helping us, but it is nevertheless somewhat
perplexing. Wouldn't you say?
> Mark: As for the scalable issue -- We have
> far more capacity on the box and bandwidth
> this is sitting on. We could expand 1,000 fold
> and still be safe here.
Alain: I am not worried about bandwidth, that's for
sure.
> Mark: I asked MONTHS ago for a new "License"
> list to be created. But, there wasn't a "demand"
> by the users for such a service.
Alain: Well ... that's not really an accurate picture
of why we chose to keep licencing-issues as part of
our main (only) mailing list. The principal argument
against it, if I recall correctly, was that our group
was and probably still is too small for this kind of
'fork' to take place.
> Mark: To create a new list is sorta easy on
> the box such as the one we are now being hosted.
> The system admin could do it in 20 minutes, max.
Alain: The difficulty or relative ease of setting up
mailing lists, while it has been a royal headache for
me, on a Mac, is nonetheless not an issue in this
case.
> Mark: BTW, I'd still like to make more
> specialized lists here.
Alain: Me too, as long as we don't divide ourselves
into so many sub-groups that none of them have a
sufficient number of participants to keep things
alive.
> Mark: I don't fire up my newsreader,
> but I ALWAYS get email.
Alain: It is an unconstestable fact that E-mail is the
most popular application of the Internet. News used to
be tremendously popular, but it is waning heavily.
>>Adrian: I think this would be a _big_ improvement.
>>And certainly worth the effort required
>>to move any archives.
Alain: Not right away, Adrian. Mark makes some good
points when he suggests that we make things
bullet-proof on the Linux machine before using it for
critical group functions. We will setup some mail
lists on the Linux box, that's for sure. The first one
will probably be a list dedicated to the subject of
the Linux box.
> Mark: Doubtful. We should improve the FAQs,
> the scope of the discussions, the numbers of
> Voters, --- the things that matter.
Alain: I agree that we should improve what you mention
above. Too much attention and importance is accorded
to the mailing list. There is so much more we could do
with our web-based collaboration infrastructure
(http). I predict, though, that using any means
besides e-mail will be an uphill battle.
> Mark: Go for it. Set it up -- play with it.
> Take a few discussion threads over there.
> But, don't mess with the lifeblood of the
> organizational forum.
Alain: This would indeed be the safest option, for now.
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