On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 4:36 PM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: > Linas, > > Tanks for taking time to answer. > > I skimmed over the Stackexchange post and I found it interesting (not that > anyone cares :o). I tried once a while ago to learn about Category theory > from Wikipedia, >
Wikipedia is not a good way to learn math, in general. You kind-of already have to know it. but it seemed over complicated. > Turns out addition is really complicated, if you are a number theorist. But if you are not, then it doesn't have to be. I guess I needed examples closer to my knowledge - not mathematical > abstractions, but type theory oriented - as noted on Stackexchange. Maybe I > should give it another try, I'll see. > I pointed you at the PDF. Go for the PDF. --linas > > Thanks again, > Ivan V. > > > uto, 2. tra 2019. u 20:05 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> napisao > je: > >> Hi Ivan: >> >> Google "category theory for computer scientists" I get this: >> >> > [PDF]Category Theory for Computing Science - Mathematics and Statistics >> > http://www.math.mcgill.ca/triples/Barr-Wells-ctcs.pdf >> > by M Barr - Cited by 1642 - Related articles >> > Aug 4, 2012 - This book is a textbook in basic category theory, written >> specifically .... been a major source of interest to computer scientists >> because they are. >> >> I have not read it. I think that "cited by 1642" means its a good, >> high-quality book. There are several of these kinds of books -- one that I >> did skim, maybe a decade ago, gave all of its examples and homework >> problems in CaML -- it was an older book, predating Haskell. >> >> See also this: >> >> https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/3028/is-category-theory-useful-for-learning-functional-programming >> >> Notice that the answer with largest upvotes says "category theory is type >> theory". For any complete newbies reading this, "int", "float", "char*", >> "class FooBar" and "int FooBar::myMethod(int x)" are all (C/C++/Java) >> examples of types. >> >> I'm making three additional claims, in addition to this highly-upvoted >> answer: >> >> 1) Link-grammar connectors/link-types are types, in the sense of type >> theory. (This is not really a new claim; the original link-grammar authors >> made more-or-less this same claim, in 1993, in one of their original papers) >> >> 2) Deep-learning neural-nets perform classification by classifying into >> types. (type-theoretical types) (this claim is kind-of >> shallow/stupid/"obvious", and needs to be articulated to become interesting >> and non-trivial.) >> >> 3) There is an almost-direct, one-to-one correspondence of deep-learning >> neural-nets types to link-grammar connectors/link-types, if you know where >> to look for them. This is the controversial claim that everyone rejects. >> And perhaps I am hallucinating and completely making this up. Like 2+2=3. >> I'm struggling with this myself, as the details remain unclear and >> confusing. So it's OK if you don't believe this one. But this is the >> claim I'm interested in. >> >> -- Linas >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 4:40 PM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Linas, you lost me at Category theory... Nevertheless, I also find the >>> idea of integrating symbolic system into neural networks amusing. The proof >>> I really do is a recent speculation from a paper I'm writing from time to >>> time, just to gather my thoughts (maybe I got this from you at some point, >>> I really don't remember now): >>> >>> Nevertheless, symbolic approach may support structure forms on top of >>>> which artificial neural networks could operate, thus forming a synergy >>>> between the two seemingly opposite philosophies in designing AI. >>>> >>> >>> But then I develop things in symbolic direction because with this, I'm >>> currently interested only in improvement of OpenCog URE engine, as far as I >>> plan to offer contribution around here if the language I'm building passes >>> the stages a, b, c, d, and also e, just in case. >>> >>> Realizing ideas take time, and life is too short to do it all, while I'm >>> not a fan of bossing around... I also like to see creativity in other >>> people too... >>> >>> sri, 27. ožu 2019. u 20:04 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >>> napisao je: >>> >>>> Hi Sergei, >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 12:14 PM Sergei Kaunov <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Amused by your work, Linas, and you describe it very interesting. >>>>> Where should we watch further progress on the topic? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks! Progress is hard, because several things have to happen in >>>> parallel. >>>> >>>> -- I (or you, or anyone else) has to think hard across multiple >>>> different difficult mathematical abstractions. >>>> >>>> -- Once I (or you, or anyone else) has some "great idea", it has to be >>>> transmitted to others, either by email or by writing papers. >>>> >>>> -- Others can understand those "great ideas" only if they have the >>>> appropriate mathematical background: in Ivan's case: hilbert-systems and >>>> natural deduction and proof theory and type theory and category theory and >>>> neural networks and deep learning and statistical mechanics (for example, >>>> the "objective function" that neural net guys love to minimize/maximize is >>>> exactly the same thing as a boltzmann distribution from statistical >>>> echanics) So my personal progress on the topic is blocked by the >>>> inability to communicate it to others. If you don't understand what I'm >>>> talking about, its deeply frustrating for me. (And this is symmetric: >>>> sometimes, I am told about great ideas, which I don't understand, because I >>>> lack the background knowledge) >>>> >>>> -- A "great idea" is great only if it *actually works*. And, here, that >>>> means (a) writing software (b) running experiments (c) analyzing data. (d) >>>> describing experimental results to others. So, not only are steps a,b,c, >>>> extremely time consuming, but step (d) is often mis-understood/neglected, >>>> because the intended audience didn't understand why the experiment is >>>> important. >>>> >>>> -- After you've conquered steps a,b,c,d then and only then can you do >>>> step e) build an insanely great demo that will wow everyone who sees it, >>>> even if they are a complete moron. For example, "deep fakes". You don't >>>> need math to know that something unusual is happening there. >>>> >>>> The pressure I'm under, that I feel, is that I've got a collection of >>>> "great ideas", I'm trying to articulate them, having trouble finding an >>>> audience, struggling with steps a,b,c,d and meanwhile everyone is shouting >>>> out loud "you guys are a bunch of losers because you don't have step e) you >>>> suck!" and dealing with the psychological and financial fallout from that. >>>> >>>> I'm not unique, here -- most researchers/scientists deal with these >>>> same issue. The commonly accepted solution for this is to create >>>> collaborations and teams -- "division of labor" -- and tehre's >>>> chicken-and-egg problems to solving that, also. >>>> >>>> --linas >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/0b258284-cb0c-45ae-8d34-9f74d7ee00f9%40googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA355QGo1zA8oCUZ3guEwMFymqJ7-PA5ydTJdMx2Sf%2B-ypQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA355QGo1zA8oCUZ3guEwMFymqJ7-PA5ydTJdMx2Sf%2B-ypQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6Xt0ze729QzdMVFyU4Q%2BYPB7hib_7n%3D4iNguzmJ2Em2SA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6Xt0ze729QzdMVFyU4Q%2BYPB7hib_7n%3D4iNguzmJ2Em2SA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> -- >> cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA36XhRzY0Wez4n0VhYSw_NYfZMVY3fU-eOPe2g7h-%2B2ZAQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA36XhRzY0Wez4n0VhYSw_NYfZMVY3fU-eOPe2g7h-%2B2ZAQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6UqyfGuEddxfB-46bK9uO-uDYg2tuercyxhgZzq%3D%2B3efA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6UqyfGuEddxfB-46bK9uO-uDYg2tuercyxhgZzq%3D%2B3efA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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