About opencrux... below, On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 10:24 AM Jack Park <[email protected]> wrote:
> That's a useful observation. I wonder if it has anything to do with the > fact that they give appearances more of offering a platform aimed at > solving real-world problems as compared to a platform for language modeling > research? > > Their landing page reads rather differently from that of the AtomSpace > landing page. They make results-oriented promises; I don't see that on the > AtomSpace landing page. > > Their landing page appears to be the work of skilled marketing types; the > AtomSpace landing page appears to be the work of, well, not skilled > marketing types. Their top nav bar says Products, Solutions, Use Cases, > Community, ...; AtomSpace is a MediaWiki, one very familiar to developers, > but not to business oriented people. > > What if AtomSpace ignored all the cool buzz words and opened with problems > it can solve, ways people can start using it right out of the box without > building it, tuning it, etc? > > Would you, as a scientist, be able to live with wall-street-oriented > thinkers taking over your pet projects and packaging them up for far > less-skilled consumers? > > I think this is an issue faced by a lot of us. > Quite right. We've never had anyone interested in marketing participate in the project. Marketing is a skill, and unlike open source, there is no "open marketing", so you have to pay these people actual $$$ to get slick content. > > I studied Grakn carefully; the front story is one, for me, of some > attraction to the apparent simplicity of the system; the back story, for > me, is that Grakn appears optimized in ways which get in the way of > allowing me to push it in ways I believe it should be pushed; a problem of > ontological commitments I cannot undo, so I just walk away. > > For a really interesting case for comparison, take a look at > https://opencrux.com/ > Well, care to be specific? I suppose it's possible to put a prolog/datalog API on top of the atomspace. I'm sufficiently removed from that world that I would not want to even begin without a lot of arm-twisting, but I can consult. I'm not sure what to say about other things. Bitemporality? We have a concept of a space-time server, optimized for dealing with time .. and space coordinates. It's neglected... Document-graph? Sure, cause why not? Seems easy to me... Back-ends other than postgres? That's interesting. It's not "hard" - its not conceptually hard, and also the infrastructure/API is already in place. But it does require some fair amount of slogging. One would have to be enthusiastic about it. Datalog queries? I'm certain that anything you can say in datalog, you can say in Atomese, and so its a matter of writing a converter/translator that accepts datalog as input and spews atomese as output. How hard is this? No clue. You've actually messed with this kind of stuff, you'd know better. Again -- everything that is a "symbol" in prolog is an atom in atomese. The atomspace is pretty much nothing more than a glorified symbol table. ... and this seems to be the key insight that the opencrux developers have made: symbol tables are (ad-hoc, in-RAM, poorly-designed) databases. Rip out the ad-hoc symbol table of programming language XYZ, replace it with a real, actual database, and wow ... off we go on a wild ride. I'm trying to think of what programming languages XYZ this could be the most interesting for... where you'd get the most bang-for-the-buck. Maybe prolog -- maybe that is the lesson from opencux ? Care to suggest an easily-hackable version of prolog/datalog on which this experiment could be done? Just for the heck of it? I mean, you could do this trick for python or javascript ... I don't think the python community would accept it, it would be too crazy and weird for them. The javascript folks might .. but they already have some pretty decent infrastructure already, so they don't need something this low-level. They've done this integration at a higher level, already. (programming in javascipt is far more mind-expanding than python. Python shuts down your world-view, narrows your thinking. Blinds you to possibilities. javascript does the opposite.) --linas > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 7:48 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> <snip> >> I dislike promoting competitors, but the grakn.ai system has taken some >> baby-steps in this general direction. I'm envious that they are far more >> popular/funded/suported/used than the atomspace. >> >> --linas >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "link-grammar" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/link-grammar/CAH6s0fydKLSFN40GykJ5FNR0d_DKqPi0yrAyVU%2B4wpFd6aig9Q%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/link-grammar/CAH6s0fydKLSFN40GykJ5FNR0d_DKqPi0yrAyVU%2B4wpFd6aig9Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- cassette tapes - analog TV - film cameras - you -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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