Hi Lansana ... Thanks for writing. To be clear, there aren't any others. There is just you & I, and ... sure, OK -- the other people cc'ed on this email, who ... might not be very interested in any of this.
As to starting over -- projects that start all over again are rarely better than the intiali project -- maybe 1 out of 5 times -- this is the industry average. The other 4 out of 5 times, projects that start over fail completely. So starting over is usually a really bad idea, best done only if the initial project is so utterly broken that it cannot be saved. So .. what's the initial project, here? Well, looking at https://github.com/opencog/atomspace-explorer, I see about 1.5KLOC of javascript. But that does not include the actual rendering engine, which is located at https://gitlab.com/icog-labs/atomspace-visualizer Which gives me a 404 not found. It would seem that the nice folks at icog labs have deleted the repo. The original authors are ... - Mikyas Damtew - Kaleab Yitbarek - Tsadkan Yitbarek - Stephen Sherman Do you know any of them, perhaps? Their emails? (Are you at icog-labs, or are you completely unrelated to them?) It would be nice to get a copy of the git repo ... if not, then maybe I can extract the source code from the npm package (which still seems to exist) -- Linas On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 10:04 AM Lansana Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > React is a frontend library written on JavaScript. It enables building > single-page web applications. > > CDN is content delivery network. So if you host something on opencog.com > and someone requests opencog.com from China, the CDN will deliver the > static HTML from a Chinese server (as opposed to from a US server) for > optimal speed and page load. It’s in the space of distributed systems. > > In regards to rebuilding the current site…without having dug through the > code (and while taking your description of the unmaintainable mess into > consideration), I would strongly recommend just nuking everything and > starting from scratch. > > A new git repo with a one-line setup command could be done in a day. The > ability for people to collaborate on it would be enabled simply by using a > well-known web UI library like React, and structuring the code such that > anyone that has any frontend experience will know how to collaborate > immediately without having to think about it. Again, all of this > boilerplate can be done in a day. > > If you can ping me in 2-4 weeks, I can kick this off and get this done, > while at the very least leaving space for others to come in and actually > build out the atomese UI using the foundation that I lay out; I have some > other deliverables over the next couple of weeks so my time is taken. > > On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 9:35 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 3:06 PM Lansana Camara <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Linas, >>> >>> I’m not Xabush, but in regards to your question about a web UI…What are >>> your requirements? >>> >> >> Heh. Well, my requirements are exactly the three things I listed in the >> first email: (1) something that beginners can use to explore the atomspace >> contents, run the example demos. (2) a job control panel (3) a data >> explorer. >> >> >>> Building a (globally distributed?) and easily maintainable frontend that >>> communicates with servers via HTTP or some similar protocol is very easy >>> for me; this is my expertise. I can start from scratch and have a web UI up >>> and running on a global CDN in one days time, using open source tech that >>> is understood by the majority of the frontend community (eg React) which >>> means that it would be easily maintainable and extensible. >>> >> >> Heh. You may as well be speaking a foreign language. I don't know what >> React is or what a CDN is -- or why either of these would be needed. So I >> don't know how to react to the proposal. >> >> Besides the code in the MOZI github directories, there is this: >> >> https://github.com/opencog/atomspace-explorer >> >> which is written in javascript, and runs inside the browser. It's old and >> a bit buggy and unmaintained. The demos work, but are filled with obsolete >> cruft that would need to be cleaned out. In particular, the demos require >> an obsolete and unmaintained json file format; it needs to be converted to >> atomese. >> >> This explorer, if it was cleaned up and modernized, could be a reasonable >> start for fulfilling requirement (1) ... maybe. >> >> The biggest problem with the atomspace explorer is that the code is >> impenetrable. Almost all of the code in that git repo seems to be a >> cut-n-paste of other projects, so its very hard to figure out where the >> actual, useful code is, and what part of it is cruft that could be >> discarded. So ... I don't know how to deal with things like that. It's >> frustratingly unmaintainable. >> >> The meta-requirement would be that ordinary people could install and run >> the thing, and use it, and that ordinary programmers could make changes to >> it. -- add features, enhancements. We're not there yet ... >> >> -- Linas >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 12:04 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Xabush, >>> >>> So I have a tough question for you: the MOZI webserver ... >>> >>> I'm trying to solve a meta-problem: I want to increase developer >>> engagement in opencog/atomspace. For that, it would be nice to have a web >>> UI. Three of them actually, or four. >>> >>> 1) A web UI that allows users to create new atomspaces, and put (by >>> hand) some atoms into it, and visualize simple graphs. So, people can point >>> their browser at it, and mess around. >>> >>> 2) A job control panel web UI. So, for the language learning project, I >>> have a collection of bash scripts that start and stop the atomspace, and >>> ingest text files, and take hours or days to run. I thought of MOZI >>> because it has some similar requirements. >>> >>> 3) A data explorer. Given an atomspace, with say, millions of atoms >>> (from language learning, or from biochem), I want to explore what's inside >>> of it: print all atoms in some cluster, ranked by frequency, or plot some >>> histogram of mutual information vs frequency or whatever. Maybe a >>> kind-of-like jupyter for the atomspace. Again, I think of the MOZI work in >>> this direction. You were trying to get a simple web UI for biochemists to >>> use. I want the same deal, but for linguists. Under the covers, it's all >>> the same stuff: just atoms in the atomspace. >>> >>> How can this be accomplished? You've built some kind of custom solution >>> for 2 & 3 for MOZI, but I don't understand how to backtrack out of that, >>> and custom-tailor it so that it works for language learning instead of >>> ChEBI or PubChem. Any ideas? >>> >>> I mean, you and Hedra have put a lot of effort into these things... >>> >>> I see things like this: >>> https://github.com/MOZI-AI/annotation-service >>> >>> and this: >>> https://github.com/MOZI-AI/annotation-service-ui >>> >>> And I'd like to have it work for the kinds of graphs and systems in the >>> language-learning codebase, instead of biochemistry. What would it take to >>> have that work? Do I really have to start from scratch? Is there a way to >>> recycle any of the work that you've done, and use it for other applications? >>> >>> I don't want to go off and state the obvious, but maybe I should go off >>> and state the obvious: if this web UI stuff was generic, then other users >>> could use it, which means that other users could show up and help fix bugs >>> and add features. It would grow the project overall ... it would help >>> anyone interested in the atomspace and in singularitynet and all that jazz >>> ... >>> >>> BTW, back in the days of Hanson Robotics, we had the same problem ... I >>> think we throw a lot of money at some Brazillian to create a WebUI for the >>> Owyl behavior tree subsystem, but .. of course, that code failed with the >>> AtomSpace, so it was like .. wasted money, wasted effort. .. we still don't >>> have a generic AtomSpace WebUI ... >>> >>> -- Linas >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA355C6jVfExiFaqYusBxj4oGwD2Bpd%2B9DY7qP3jyLb7orQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA355C6jVfExiFaqYusBxj4oGwD2Bpd%2B9DY7qP3jyLb7orQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERrO-KhO%3Ddp0UXOhfT4hUQn8O95%3DfzKGw26kpRzXpz-cxA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERrO-KhO%3Ddp0UXOhfT4hUQn8O95%3DfzKGw26kpRzXpz-cxA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34e%3D-8E0d%2ByeGkwUMaj6jBWOO_Uoi26CDOUubbkeXknxQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34e%3D-8E0d%2ByeGkwUMaj6jBWOO_Uoi26CDOUubbkeXknxQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERoovF6SsLsKD3WPpAa9OwtLc%2BK82Ao6CXzMJkBW2krWnA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERoovF6SsLsKD3WPpAa9OwtLc%2BK82Ao6CXzMJkBW2krWnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Patrick: Are they laughing at us? Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34hU%3DOdJBV6pFeCepjDrbsZquNGOZkwpCbwyOOMJcpV_g%40mail.gmail.com.
