I'm also interested in AtomSpace UI and have had very pleasant dev experience with React (as well as TypeScript which I would recommend).
On Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 00:04 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Lansana ... > > Thanks for writing. To be clear, there aren't any others. There is just > you & I, and ... sure, OK -- the other people cc'ed on this email, who ... > might not be very interested in any of this. > > As to starting over -- projects that start all over again are rarely > better than the intiali project -- maybe 1 out of 5 times -- this is the > industry average. The other 4 out of 5 times, projects that start over > fail completely. So starting over is usually a really bad idea, best done > only if the initial project is so utterly broken that it cannot be saved. > > So .. what's the initial project, here? Well, > looking at https://github.com/opencog/atomspace-explorer, I see about > 1.5KLOC of javascript. > But that does not include the actual rendering engine, which is located at > > https://gitlab.com/icog-labs/atomspace-visualizer > > Which gives me a 404 not found. It would seem that the nice folks at icog > labs have deleted the repo. The original authors are ... > > - Mikyas Damtew > - Kaleab Yitbarek > - Tsadkan Yitbarek > - Stephen Sherman > > Do you know any of them, perhaps? Their emails? (Are you at icog-labs, or > are you completely unrelated to them?) It would be nice to get a copy of > the git repo ... if not, then maybe I can extract the source code from the > npm package (which still seems to exist) > > -- Linas > > > On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 10:04 AM Lansana Camara <[email protected]> wrote: > >> React is a frontend library written on JavaScript. It enables building >> single-page web applications. >> >> CDN is content delivery network. So if you host something on opencog.com >> and someone requests opencog.com from China, the CDN will deliver the >> static HTML from a Chinese server (as opposed to from a US server) for >> optimal speed and page load. It’s in the space of distributed systems. >> >> In regards to rebuilding the current site…without having dug through the >> code (and while taking your description of the unmaintainable mess into >> consideration), I would strongly recommend just nuking everything and >> starting from scratch. >> >> A new git repo with a one-line setup command could be done in a day. The >> ability for people to collaborate on it would be enabled simply by using a >> well-known web UI library like React, and structuring the code such that >> anyone that has any frontend experience will know how to collaborate >> immediately without having to think about it. Again, all of this >> boilerplate can be done in a day. >> >> If you can ping me in 2-4 weeks, I can kick this off and get this done, >> while at the very least leaving space for others to come in and actually >> build out the atomese UI using the foundation that I lay out; I have some >> other deliverables over the next couple of weeks so my time is taken. >> >> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 9:35 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 3:06 PM Lansana Camara <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Linas, >>>> >>>> I’m not Xabush, but in regards to your question about a web UI…What are >>>> your requirements? >>>> >>> >>> Heh. Well, my requirements are exactly the three things I listed in the >>> first email: (1) something that beginners can use to explore the atomspace >>> contents, run the example demos. (2) a job control panel (3) a data >>> explorer. >>> >>> >>>> Building a (globally distributed?) and easily maintainable frontend >>>> that communicates with servers via HTTP or some similar protocol is very >>>> easy for me; this is my expertise. I can start from scratch and have a web >>>> UI up and running on a global CDN in one days time, using open source tech >>>> that is understood by the majority of the frontend community (eg React) >>>> which means that it would be easily maintainable and extensible. >>>> >>> >>> Heh. You may as well be speaking a foreign language. I don't know what >>> React is or what a CDN is -- or why either of these would be needed. So I >>> don't know how to react to the proposal. >>> >>> Besides the code in the MOZI github directories, there is this: >>> >>> https://github.com/opencog/atomspace-explorer >>> >>> which is written in javascript, and runs inside the browser. It's old >>> and a bit buggy and unmaintained. The demos work, but are filled with >>> obsolete cruft that would need to be cleaned out. In particular, the demos >>> require an obsolete and unmaintained json file format; it needs to be >>> converted to atomese. >>> >>> This explorer, if it was cleaned up and modernized, could be a >>> reasonable start for fulfilling requirement (1) ... maybe. >>> >>> The biggest problem with the atomspace explorer is that the code is >>> impenetrable. Almost all of the code in that git repo seems to be a >>> cut-n-paste of other projects, so its very hard to figure out where the >>> actual, useful code is, and what part of it is cruft that could be >>> discarded. So ... I don't know how to deal with things like that. It's >>> frustratingly unmaintainable. >>> >>> The meta-requirement would be that ordinary people could install and run >>> the thing, and use it, and that ordinary programmers could make changes to >>> it. -- add features, enhancements. We're not there yet ... >>> >>> -- Linas >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 12:04 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Xabush, >>>> >>>> So I have a tough question for you: the MOZI webserver ... >>>> >>>> I'm trying to solve a meta-problem: I want to increase developer >>>> engagement in opencog/atomspace. For that, it would be nice to have a web >>>> UI. Three of them actually, or four. >>>> >>>> 1) A web UI that allows users to create new atomspaces, and put (by >>>> hand) some atoms into it, and visualize simple graphs. So, people can point >>>> their browser at it, and mess around. >>>> >>>> 2) A job control panel web UI. So, for the language learning project, I >>>> have a collection of bash scripts that start and stop the atomspace, and >>>> ingest text files, and take hours or days to run. I thought of MOZI >>>> because it has some similar requirements. >>>> >>>> 3) A data explorer. Given an atomspace, with say, millions of atoms >>>> (from language learning, or from biochem), I want to explore what's inside >>>> of it: print all atoms in some cluster, ranked by frequency, or plot some >>>> histogram of mutual information vs frequency or whatever. Maybe a >>>> kind-of-like jupyter for the atomspace. Again, I think of the MOZI work in >>>> this direction. You were trying to get a simple web UI for biochemists to >>>> use. I want the same deal, but for linguists. Under the covers, it's all >>>> the same stuff: just atoms in the atomspace. >>>> >>>> How can this be accomplished? You've built some kind of custom solution >>>> for 2 & 3 for MOZI, but I don't understand how to backtrack out of that, >>>> and custom-tailor it so that it works for language learning instead of >>>> ChEBI or PubChem. Any ideas? >>>> >>>> I mean, you and Hedra have put a lot of effort into these things... >>>> >>>> I see things like this: >>>> https://github.com/MOZI-AI/annotation-service >>>> >>>> and this: >>>> https://github.com/MOZI-AI/annotation-service-ui >>>> >>>> And I'd like to have it work for the kinds of graphs and systems in the >>>> language-learning codebase, instead of biochemistry. What would it take to >>>> have that work? Do I really have to start from scratch? Is there a way to >>>> recycle any of the work that you've done, and use it for other >>>> applications? >>>> >>>> I don't want to go off and state the obvious, but maybe I should go off >>>> and state the obvious: if this web UI stuff was generic, then other users >>>> could use it, which means that other users could show up and help fix bugs >>>> and add features. It would grow the project overall ... it would help >>>> anyone interested in the atomspace and in singularitynet and all that jazz >>>> ... >>>> >>>> BTW, back in the days of Hanson Robotics, we had the same problem ... I >>>> think we throw a lot of money at some Brazillian to create a WebUI for the >>>> Owyl behavior tree subsystem, but .. of course, that code failed with the >>>> AtomSpace, so it was like .. wasted money, wasted effort. .. we still don't >>>> have a generic AtomSpace WebUI ... >>>> >>>> -- Linas >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA355C6jVfExiFaqYusBxj4oGwD2Bpd%2B9DY7qP3jyLb7orQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA355C6jVfExiFaqYusBxj4oGwD2Bpd%2B9DY7qP3jyLb7orQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERrO-KhO%3Ddp0UXOhfT4hUQn8O95%3DfzKGw26kpRzXpz-cxA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERrO-KhO%3Ddp0UXOhfT4hUQn8O95%3DfzKGw26kpRzXpz-cxA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34e%3D-8E0d%2ByeGkwUMaj6jBWOO_Uoi26CDOUubbkeXknxQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34e%3D-8E0d%2ByeGkwUMaj6jBWOO_Uoi26CDOUubbkeXknxQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERoovF6SsLsKD3WPpAa9OwtLc%2BK82Ao6CXzMJkBW2krWnA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAPPXERoovF6SsLsKD3WPpAa9OwtLc%2BK82Ao6CXzMJkBW2krWnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Patrick: Are they laughing at us? > Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34hU%3DOdJBV6pFeCepjDrbsZquNGOZkwpCbwyOOMJcpV_g%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34hU%3DOdJBV6pFeCepjDrbsZquNGOZkwpCbwyOOMJcpV_g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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