this is very cool, ivan! two suggestions would be to indicate on the ovals with a tick mark where the off-screen nodes are to guide navigation, and a permanent slider/[+,-] buttons for global zoom control. (i know these are obvious)
On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 7:15:09 AM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote: > While waiting for inference histories, I'm developing an idea about > turning the inference visualizer into an interactive AtomSpace debugger: > http://ocog.atspace.cc/. > > pon, 12. srp 2021. u 21:43 Ivan V. <[email protected]> napisao je: > >> Great, I'm glad you are interested in an experiment. >> >> A reasonable step would be for Nil to send you some real PLN and URE >>> inference histories and see what your visualizer does with them... >>> >> >> Sure, JSON history files would be perfect (we could make this a standard >> communication pipe between reasoner and visualizer), but I guess I can >> somehow manage any existing format you are already used to. You know my >> mail. >> >> Currently, the library is AJAX-ing an XML tree structure and standard >> HTMLs as input, with possibility of using php or other server side >> scripting technology to interface the input files you pass over here. Would >> that be ok? I have to mention, with some additional effort, there could be >> other input options such as reading and evaluating JSON file wrapped into >> javascript source code file. I'm telling this because this would exclude >> the requirement of running a HTTP and php server, but if it is not >> necessary, I'd like to avoid this step and do the php trick. >> >> pon, 12. srp 2021. u 20:30 Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> napisao je: >> >>> A reasonable step would be for Nil to send you some real PLN and URE >>> inference histories and see what your visualizer does with them... >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 10:59 AM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I made a small infinity test <http://ocog.atspace.cc/infinite/> too. >>>> Each parent virtually has an infinite number of children. Rolling ovals >>>> around, zooming ovals in, zooming ovals out, ... Surely it's not exactly >>>> perfect, but I could live with it. >>>> >>>> pon, 12. srp 2021. u 17:48 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> napisao >>>> je: >>>> >>>>> Hi Ivan, >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 6:00 AM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for asking, and my thoughts are pretty obvious. As I >>>>>> understand, URE and PLN are all about proofs, so my thoughts may go in >>>>>> that >>>>>> direction. Suppose we have a natural deduction proof composition: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- I J >>>>>> K L M N P Q R ----------------- >>>>>> ----------------- ----------------- A B >>>>>> >>>>>> C----------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> X* >>>>>> >>>>>> You can already see the tree-like composition, but as it may span >>>>>> over a very wide and tall area, it may be required to represent it >>>>>> within >>>>>> an on-demand scaling system. This example <http://ocog.atspace.cc/> >>>>>> roughly shows what I have imagined for proof representation. In the >>>>>> example >>>>>> you can play with ovals, dragging them around and in or out the central >>>>>> area, zooming proof parts of the current interest. Notice how it is >>>>>> possible to represent and navigate nearly infinite length proofs, >>>>>> assuming >>>>>> enough memory space. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Re: navigating trees: if you don't already know this, then I suggest >>>>> that you really, really should study hyperbolic rotations aka mobius >>>>> transformations on the poincare disk. They implement your example. I >>>>> recall seeing a demo of this at SIGGRAPH two or three decades ago. As you >>>>> pan around on the hyperbolic disk, different parts of the graph get >>>>> magnified at the center. And, like an MC Escher print, the rest of the >>>>> graph remains compressed at the edges. >>>>> >>>>> For scale-free networks, this doesn't work. And from what I can tell, >>>>> learning really does result in something close to scale-free networks. >>>>> What this means in practice is that there's one vertex with a million >>>>> edges >>>>> coming off of it. There are two, with half-a-million each. Four, with a >>>>> quarter-million each, and so on. So almost all vertexes have just a >>>>> handful >>>>> of edges connected to them, but as you move around, from vertex to >>>>> vertex, >>>>> you bump into these monsters. And you can't really draw them: try drawing >>>>> a >>>>> vertex with a thousand edges on your 2Kx2K monitor: most of those edges >>>>> will be less than one pixel from each-other. It'll be just a big blob. >>>>> >>>>> It's important to "eat your own dog-food", as they say, or "smoke your >>>>> own dope": use your own code to solve actual, real-world problems. This >>>>> very quickly highlights where all that beautiful theory doesn't quite >>>>> work >>>>> out in practice. >>>>> >>>>> --linas >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34HBqa02JkW9-EVR5OrpSkOWEMGjZBOCPM2vKKpJR2%2B0A%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34HBqa02JkW9-EVR5OrpSkOWEMGjZBOCPM2vKKpJR2%2B0A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6UgLR5xMP9WeE%2BWOkqBynGTr%2BNQTwsmUq9JrSuU1Sh1ZA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6UgLR5xMP9WeE%2BWOkqBynGTr%2BNQTwsmUq9JrSuU1Sh1ZA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBeOoqMRD20KFDYPGG1YfRqT0qW4wehOGtTKSqTb%3D6L2Jw%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBeOoqMRD20KFDYPGG1YfRqT0qW4wehOGtTKSqTb%3D6L2Jw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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