Hi Nugi, On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 10:43 PM nugi nugroho <[email protected]> wrote:
> Excuse me, do you think that a cs degree is mandatory when researching an > agi system?? > If you are not fluent in at least several programming languages, and don't clearly understand fundamental system processes (memory, cpu, network) then you won't be able to actively participate in the creation of AGI. If you don't have a formal degree in the "hard sciences" (mathematics, physics) you will not be able to theorize what is going on, or even understand the theoretical advances. Without this, you will be left to wonder and philosophize about what is going on "down there" in working systems. And maybe that's OK -- understanding the impact of AGI requires understanding sociology, anthropology, linguistics, philosophy, psychology, neuroscience ... so this is a marvelous generalist's playground. Ideally, you would know a lot about all of the topics above. They all seem important. --linas > > On Tue, May 17, 2022, 03:56 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 12:03 AM nugi nugroho <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I think you are right, that system is way more complicated to build. >>> But, do you think that Link-grammar nature can be used to steal ideas from >>> deep learning to symbolic learning. (I dunno, probably just for fun, not >>> really matters) >>> >> >> Short answer is "yes", although I have not thought very much about this. >> Other tasks seem much more important to me right now, although clearly, >> most mainstream thinkers are very interested in coupling symbolic systems >> to deep learning. Perhaps I should say: everyone else is thinking about >> this, perhaps my time is best spent working on something that everyone else >> is ignoring? >> >> --linas >> >> >>> Pada tanggal Min, 10 Apr 2022 pukul 02.41 Linas Vepstas < >>> [email protected]> menulis: >>> >>>> Hi Nugi, >>>> >>>> I have an idea for how to segment an image into parts, and recognize >>>> those parts. For example, given a car, to recognize where the wheels are, >>>> where the tires on the wheels are, the windshields, the roof, the >>>> door-handles, and then to be able to labels these parts (with words, for >>>> instance) -- Likewise for faces (eyes, nose, mouth...) or any other >>>> real-world object. This provides a "grammatical structure" to the object. >>>> It is more than just "image segmentation"; rather, it is a way of "seeing" >>>> the structure, the part-whole relationship. Once this grammar is found, >>>> one can reason about objects, talk about objects, etc. >>>> >>>> The PDF in the email chain explains how to do this. Writing the code >>>> would take a long time, as would running the experiments. You are welcome >>>> to read about it, and think about it, but I don't think it is a good >>>> project for a student: it would take many years of full-time hard work to >>>> accomplish this. >>>> >>>> --linas >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 5:51 PM nugi nugroho <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Could it be possible to make some 3d model of an object, Isolate it, >>>>> create another corpus for object recognition by inputting the video >>>>> rendering result to the system to be able to recognize the object in 2d. I >>>>> wonder if this is possible without inputting a 3d model to the new corpus >>>>> and just the blank video input and by some iteration it will be able to >>>>> identify the isolated object in some noisy environment. If this is >>>>> possible >>>>> then the system could theoretically learn to recognize objects from a >>>>> youtube video by passing the video and the subtitle(for now the subtitle >>>>> is >>>>> created from a neural network since I have no idea how to create the audio >>>>> corpus). Usually the cooking channels from youtube are explaining about >>>>> the >>>>> ingredients like apples and moving them as they cook it, so I think that I >>>>> could be used as the input to teach the model. I know this is a huge and >>>>> very difficult thing to do. >>>>> >>>>> The thing that I know is I don't know a lot about how to use this >>>>> technique for computer vision, I was still dumb. I still don't have any >>>>> idea how to isolate each object in the video since this shouldn't be >>>>> hardcoded but learned. >>>>> >>>>> Pada tanggal Jum, 8 Apr 2022 pukul 16.06 nugi nugroho < >>>>> [email protected]> menulis: >>>>> >>>>>> I still do not understand the system completely, but I wonder if this >>>>>> system is theoretically capable of creating 3d models from video input >>>>>> that >>>>>> the cameramen rotate around an object at a certain angle. I was thinking >>>>>> of >>>>>> creating a corpus capable of converting video to 3d models for further >>>>>> processing by reasoning algorithms. I think AGI needs to have the skills >>>>>> to >>>>>> think at least about the 3d world(just my naive assumption though). This >>>>>> was the first idea that popped into my head but, well, I still need to >>>>>> prepare for my university exam so I can't learn faster than my current >>>>>> pace >>>>>> and my current skills are not sufficient to realize that idea for now. I >>>>>> hope that I can make some contribution to the project at the end of this >>>>>> year, but I cannot promise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pada tanggal Rab, 6 Apr 2022 pukul 01.04 Linas Vepstas < >>>>>> [email protected]> menulis: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Craig, (and Ivan) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Replying publicly to a private email: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 4:00 PM Craig Bosco <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the only way forward is to crowdsource work and ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> everyone will ultimately benefit from the OpenCog platform as it >>>>>>>> gains ease-of-use and sophistication. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The OpenCog "platform" is both broad and deep; to discuss all >>>>>>> aspects of it would be boiling the ocean. Unless, that is, you want to >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> on deep and basic infrastructure. One such would be converting the >>>>>>> AtomSpace into a commercially viable platform that ordinary developers >>>>>>> would want to use on a day-by-day basis. Having this would attract >>>>>>> public >>>>>>> attention, although it would not much advance the overall AGI research >>>>>>> goals. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One way to convert the AtomSpace into a commercially viable product >>>>>>> would be to allow it to store generic JSON or similar (generic >>>>>>> s-expressions, generic YAML, or even generic python or a json-like >>>>>>> subset >>>>>>> of python. Or all of the above.) This is "commercially appealing" >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> there already is a company that does this (grakn.ai, but since >>>>>>> renamed to some other name I can't recall) and there are several other >>>>>>> graph-database companies that offer something similar. I've taken some >>>>>>> small steps in this direction, but abandoned them as they seemed like a >>>>>>> distraction from the main topic of AGI research. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The above might be appealing because it is a fairly well-defined, >>>>>>> clear-cut project. It does not require arcane theory, or deep >>>>>>> experimentation. It's mostly a matter of roll-up-your-sleeves and write >>>>>>> code, which is exactly the kind of thing most programmers enjoy. Take a >>>>>>> sketch, and turn it into a polished product. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As to AGI research: the stuff I'm working on now is very >>>>>>> theory-laden and complex; I now realize that I should not much expect >>>>>>> anyone to follow, although a shout out to Amir who continues to >>>>>>> surprise me >>>>>>> regularly. He's on the right track. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As to AGI research that you or Ivan could work on (... if only Ivan >>>>>>> stopped skimming emails, and actually paid attention to what was >>>>>>> written in >>>>>>> them...) there is brand-new green-field development on audio and video >>>>>>> processing. Green-field, in that not much code has been written, and so >>>>>>> you don't have to modify a large complex existing code-base. It does, >>>>>>> however, require interfacing into large and complex existing systems. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> path is fairly straight-forward; see attached PDF. The work, however, is >>>>>>> definitely challenging: it will require some hard thinking and lots of >>>>>>> work. It's not "just programming", it's architecture and exploration. >>>>>>> Some >>>>>>> of that work is grunt-work, e.g. collecting a suitable corpus of images. >>>>>>> Some is just painful: running CPU-intensive jobs for days on end. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PDF: >>>>>>> https://github.com/opencog/learn/blob/master/learn-lang-diary/agi-2022/grammar-induction.pdf >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Linas >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA37aWVAPcguURrd7xZZmJUuP7Czb%2Bu4NsbhU1dF6D1y4_Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA37aWVAPcguURrd7xZZmJUuP7Czb%2Bu4NsbhU1dF6D1y4_Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAJA72CeOHdm6iEMT5cM6Yetygyei_g8xa7cgNRg3kA2RWNvUMA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAJA72CeOHdm6iEMT5cM6Yetygyei_g8xa7cgNRg3kA2RWNvUMA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA35uRsmmuqKYhgk7GvvMabXvyi5N82%3DH41Fn6kOCZ%2BP8%2BA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA35uRsmmuqKYhgk7GvvMabXvyi5N82%3DH41Fn6kOCZ%2BP8%2BA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAJA72CfXDo0Lm_DU287-1wAHJ700o6QqWCnhdQeidLPjU-EdwQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAJA72CfXDo0Lm_DU287-1wAHJ700o6QqWCnhdQeidLPjU-EdwQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA37UVZzi%2B%2Bh26KuraCAJPw0-JhW3zHaw%3Dz%2BsAK3OWJY0vg%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA37UVZzi%2B%2Bh26KuraCAJPw0-JhW3zHaw%3Dz%2BsAK3OWJY0vg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAJA72CeAm-0Ekv%2Bc3EJ_2UYzYEwKG%2BKwkLtNcXc-1kEmYxV5Ug%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAJA72CeAm-0Ekv%2Bc3EJ_2UYzYEwKG%2BKwkLtNcXc-1kEmYxV5Ug%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Patrick: Are they laughing at us? Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA36YyTWuhCGqjuVB4MjTrVR-tAQSYmpeHRJkg-RwjWGTpA%40mail.gmail.com.
