On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Carlos Cardenas <car...@cumulusnetworks.com
> wrote:

> David,
> I think what you are describing are some good points on the resource
> constraints on the WAPs.
> However, saying that using ONIE increases your disk storage by 1.5GB is
> over the top.

Hi Carlos, the 2GB statement / recommended minimum requirement did not come
from me nor was it in reference to Canonical / Ubuntu.  On the call I
reported 512MB of storage recommended minimum requirement for Ubuntu Core.

> For example, take a look at the Edgecore 4600, it's an old PPC/BCM Apollo2
> 1G switch with 1GB of Flash and 2GB of RAM and one of the first switches to
> support ONIE.  Grant it, it's more than the current WAPs but ONIE/NOS
> functionality is just fine (even during installation).  ONIE is just 4MB on
> this box.
> I think what you are describing (limitations and constraints) is an
> artifact with the Ubuntu installer more than anything.  Would you agree?

No, the _Ubuntu_ installer does not have this problem.

To split hairs, the current onie-installer that installs Ubuntu has this
limitation/constraints but is not unique to Ubuntu.  (Again, this was NOT
brought up by Canonical/Ubuntu, but am following up to say that it affects
the onie-installer for Ubuntu as well).

And yes, ONIE is a requirement for OCP hardware. (Until such time something
> better replaces it)

I'm not touching that one with a ten-foot-pole :)

> +--+
> Carlos
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David Duffey <david.duf...@canonical.com
> > wrote:
>> On the CBW call yesterday it was asked what specs the operating systems
>> would target for APs and there was a range of feedback from 512M of storage
>> (Ubuntu Core) to 2G of storage (including ONIE).  Ubuntu Core itself
>> recommends 512M of storage and 256M of ram (including OpenWRT.snap), but
>> requires more when using ONIE, probably similar to other solutions
>> mentioned on the call.  I went back and looked into it a bit more so for
>> those interested in the numbers ...
>> In theory we could do something as low as 128M of storage, but it would
>> be extremely tight and not allow for expected / normal behavior.  In the
>> case of Ubuntu Core you would lose the functionality of being able to do
>> atomic transnational updates with roll-backs.  It would force you into a
>> single-function, non-extensible, firmware-like experience.  In addition,
>> this is "in theory" and would require additional engineering work to get to
>> that small (Ubuntu Core installed is about 150M now depending on the target
>> platform).
>> From the Ubuntu Core Side, about 150M+ is used by the kernel.snap and
>> os.snap (roughly 50/50).  In order to do transactional updates with
>> rollback of these two snaps, double that to 300M+ for the base
>> distribution.  Then you'll want to leave some room to install applications
>> and additional functionality, getting us to the nice round number of 512M.
>> For reference, the OpenWrt.snap package is 3M in size.  You can install
>> that by running
>>           "sudo snap install --devmode --edge openwrt"
>> I have been doing this on a Rasberry Pi3 Ubuntu Core image and it has
>> been working well.  Once installed it does not take any additional space
>> (it is a compressed squashfs).  Double that to 6M for updates/rollbacks and
>> a few KB for local configuration, etc.  This is small because it leverages
>> the running Ubuntu Core kernel.
>> To give another example of disk space usage, installing nmap.deb on
>> classic Ubuntu takes up about 30MB of disk space including
>> unique-to-only-nmap dependencies.  Installing nmap.snap takes up about 6MB
>> of diskspace (including all dependencies).  So for most environments you'll
>> use/need less disk space with Ubuntu Core, including add-on software, than
>> classic Linux despite the inclusion of dependencies into the snap.
>> Images will start to show up here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.co
>> m/ubuntu-core/xenial/daily-preinstalled/current/
>> If you want Pi3 images they will show up above "soon", or e-mail me and I
>> can point you to where they are currently hosted, and I can also provide
>> you scripts to convert Ubuntu Core images to ONIE installable-images.
>> Anyone can start building kernel snaps, Ubuntu Core images, snaps, and ONIE
>> compatible images today.
>> 256M memory + 512M storage minimum recommendations for Ubuntu assumes
>> locally installed or PXE-installed.  This is currently how we have been
>> installing on wifi/AP devices (developer focused devices like the Pi3 or
>> enterprise devices like the Dell IoT Gateway).
>> If using ONIE there are a couple of additional requirements, you will
>> need space for the ONIE kernel, install environment, etc, on disk.  The
>> onie-installer as currently written downloads the NOS image to memory,
>> expands it, then writes to disk.  We need about 750MB of free usable memory
>> (after ONIE), so at least ~1G of memory but I have not tested this myself
>> and may need more as all the switches I've ONIE-installed to have had more
>> than this.  In theory this could be reduced if we ported the native
>> OS installer streaming-to-disk functionality to ONIE (instead of using the
>> ONIE template we based off of).
>> I think it is fair to point out that ONIE is one supported bootloader for
>> OCP hardware but it is not a requirement.
>> David
>> --
>> David Duffey
>> +1-512-850-6776 (work), +1-512-287-4289 (work fax)
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David Duffey
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