Read the text below. Gerard
-- -- Gerard Freriks, MD Convenor CEN/TC251 WG1 TNO Quality of Life Wassenaarseweg 56 Leiden PostBox 2215 22301CE Leiden The Netherlands +31 71 5181388 +31 654 792800 On 10 Mar 2005, at 22:21, Sam Heard wrote: > Jose > > Hi - this is a difficult time with the 13606 standard about to hit the > streets and the technology having been developed in the openEHR space. > The openEHR approach is now considerably richer than 13606 and will, > we hope, be the development space. > > You can do pretty much everything in 13606 that you can do in openEHR, > BUT there is no standard way to express many things that have been > shown to be worthwhile such as: > > A time series - this will be lots of entries in 13606 > The state (e.g. patient sitting) and protocol (e.g. used wide cuff) > information - this will clutter the data and make display rules > difficult > The openEHR work that is going on with instructions - which will allow > following a process and linking with workflow and decision support - > will have to be done with clusters and elements - and it will not be > sure how to do it exactly except to write it down. > And this is the reason why we at CEN must develop a series of basic archetypes that become part of the EN13606 part 3. These basic archetypes will prescribe a uniform way of using time series. > So, we are hoping that people will look to the openEHR collaboration > as the space to define clinical concepts and then generate 13606 > archetypes for use with this standard - rather than everyone going > their own way. > > Further, collaboration is required in this area - it is difficult to > get people working together but Thomas and others have put a huge > effort into making this feasible. > > I hope this is helpful..... > > Sam Heard >> Hello, >> We have just read the message bellow and honestly we do not understand >> anything now. We supposed that EN13606-1 reference model could be >> used as >> reference model for developing archetypes. >> You can read in prEN13606-2 (last version February 2005), section >> 1.3. Communicating archetypes: "It is >> the intention of both CEN and HL7 that HL7 Templates and EN13606 >> archetypes be interoperable". One question arises are these EN13606 >> archetypes different from OPENEHR archetypes?. >> Could you show some examples of clinical concepts that can not be >> expressed as archetypes derived from EN13606-1 reference model?. >> thanks in advance >> On dj, 2005-03-10 at 17:19, Thom >> Thomas Beale escribi?: >>> Alfonso Mata wrote: >>> >>>> Hello everybody, >>>> >>>> We're working at University of Zaragoza (Spain) on a EHR system. We >>>> want to conform to 13606 and make use of ADL-based archetypes. We >>>> are >>>> just starting and we have lots of doubts about how to implement and >>>> apply all concepts. These are our questions: >>>> >>>> - How 13606 is applied to built ADL archetypes? Is it already >>>> possible? >>>> - Is it possible to obtain a XML-Schema based on 13606 from an ADL >>>> file? >>>> - Is ADL parser in openEHR site the only one to make use of it? >>>> >>> It does not make any real sense to make archetypes literally based >>> on CEN 13606. Archetypes have a very important requirement: to be >>> targetted to an informatoin model which acts as a "base ontology". >>> In openEHR we use the openEHR reference model fr this purpose. This >>> is what allows you to write an archetype for somehting like "Apgar >>> result", which needs to use concepts like OBSERVATION (with >>> properties data, state and protocol), HISTORY (with properties >>> events, origin), EVENT (property data), and varous data structure >>> types, like TREE, LIST, TABLE and SINGLE. >>> >>> EN 13606 is not designed directly to support archetyping; it is >>> designed as a lowest-common denominator EHR data interoperability >>> model, with support for transmitting archetyped information. >>> >>> This is not the same as providing sufficient ontological definitoins >>> to support the building or use of archetypes. If you were to use >>> EN13606 literally for archetypes, you could only use ENTRY, CLUSTER >>> and ELEMENT; you will see that trying to define most clinical >>> concepts with such a weak ontology will be annoying difficult, >>> error-prone, and ultimately will not engage clinical professionals. >>> >>> So openEHR currently offers at least part of a base ontology for >>> building archetypes, with concepts of sufficient strength to make >>> higher-level clinical concepts easily expressible. In the near >>> future, we intend to propose the creation of an agreed "base level >>> ontology" reference model, expressed in UML, for use by everybody >>> for buiulding archetypes. We will include the core of the openEHR >>> reference model for this (from COMPOSITION down); but we want other >>> organisations to think about what they need to see in this. There >>> are other reference models such as the Danish G-EPJ which have clean >>> concepts which may need to be in this base ontology; also ENV 13940 >>> (continuity of care) models need to be analysed for possible >>> contributions. We will propose this base ontology at the next CEN >>> working group meeting. I believe people will agree in principle. >>> >>> A data mapping is also being defined between openEHR (and later, the >>> common base ontology) and EN13606. This wll enable 13606 to fulfull >>> its purpose, which is to move data faithfully between EHR sites, >>> including data which has been archetyped in those sites. >>> >>> But please don't try to directly archteype 13606 information >>> structures - you will be going down he wrong route! >>> >>> - thomas beale >>> >>> >>> - >>> If you have any questions about using this list, >>> please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org >>> >> - >> If you have any questions about using this list, >> please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org > - > If you have any questions about using this list, > please send a message to d.lloyd at openehr.org > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 5838 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/private/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20050312/3a6b7374/attachment.bin>
