Thanks all, This is really helpful. I followed Eric's link to set up an account to get access to the Specs draft and got an account within hours with access to the Specs draft.
I hope the query language will be standardised and published as well at some stage - would be very useful to have a formal expression of what the intention is of an RefSet. Ian, I just went through the document quickly, so far I couldn't see any use, misuse, etc. metadata. Sebastian Ian McNicoll wrote: > Thanks Michael, > > Can I ask if the workflow/process elements of the Workbench are > regarded as separate from the Refset 2 specifications, or within other > offical IHTSDO specs? Or is this just intended as a local feature of > the workbench? > > Although the Refset2 sepcifications define a greate deal of > 'metadata', as far as I can tell , other than Refset name, this is > almost wholly technical in nature and clinical metadata elements e.g > use, misuse, purpose, authoring details are not defined - is this correct? > > Ian > > Dr Ian McNicoll > office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657 > mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 > skype ianmcnicoll > ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com > <mailto:ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com> > ian at mcmi.co.uk <mailto:ian at mcmi.co.uk> > > Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics openEHR Archetype Editorial Group > Member BCS Primary Health Care SG Group www.phcsg.org > <http://www.phcsg.org> / BCS Health Scotland > > > > On 6 May 2010 13:22, <Michael.Lawley at csiro.au> wrote: > > > I would add to Eric's point 3 that (based on the content of an > IHTSDO webinar) the workflow/process implemented in the IHTSDO > workbench involves an explicit manual approval step for every item > in the generated "static" refset. I don't know how/if there is > any special support for dealing with re-generating the refset > based on a new SNOMED release or a modified set of specification > queries. > > m > > ---- > Dr Michael Lawley > Principal Research Scientist > The Australia e-Health Research Centre http://aehrc.com/ > +61 7 3253 3609; 0432 832 067 > > ________________________________________ > From: openehr-technical-bounces at chime.ucl.ac.uk > <mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at chime.ucl.ac.uk> > [openehr-technical-bounces at chime.ucl.ac.uk > <mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at chime.ucl.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of > Eric Browne [eric.browne at montagesystems.com.au > <mailto:eric.browne at montagesystems.com.au>] > Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2010 9:20 PM > To: For openEHR clinical discussions > Cc: For openEHR clinical discussions; Openehr-Technical > Subject: Re: IHTSDO meeting - term binding presentation available > > Hi Sebastian, > > If I can give my own perspective on this, having been peripherally > involved for some time.. > > 1. Unfortunately, the IHTSDO (www.ihtsdo.org > <http://www.ihtsdo.org>), who is responsible for the ongoing > management and development of SNOMED CT, is still a somewhat > closed and traditional standards development organisation. It has > no publicly accessible wiki of resources ? la openEHR. It does, > however, have a substantial community of individuals from member > countries and affiliate organisations and several collaborative > websites and mailing lists where ideas, contributions, new > specifications etc. are documented and evolve. I would guess that > the majority of participants are either active in other standards > development organisations, or staff/affiliates of member nation > health informatics programs such as the UK's NHS Connecting for > Health Program, Canada's Infoway, Australia's National E-Health > Transition Authority, etc. > > 2. For many years prior to IHTSDO taking over SNOMED CT from the > College of American Pathologists, SNOMED CT embraced a mechanism > and format for producing "subsets" of SNOMED CT. About 18 months > ago, proposals for a new SNOMED release format and a new > Reference Set format (to replace the old subset mechanism) emerged > and evolved. These two proposals morphed into a single umbrella > specification called Release Format 2, which has now reached Draft > for Trial Use status within the IHTSDO. One of the specification > documents covers Reference Set formats and is available in part 2 > of RF2 at: > http://www.ihtsdo.org/publications/draft-for-review-and-trial-use/ > . This draft specification includes support for "language > refsets", which may be of particular interest to you. Access to > the collaborative space where these documents are made available > is described at: > http://www.ihtsdo.org/about-ihtsdo/collaborative-space/ . > > 3. To my knowledge there is no formal IHTSDO proposal for a query > language to express Refset membership specifications. However, the > IHTSDO Terminology Workbench does incorporate quite a > sophisticated mechanism for building refsets using an underlying ( > and evolving) query-based expression language. Note: these refsets > do not necessarily need to be specific to SNOMED. The refset > specifications, however, are currently designed to construct > static files for distribution alongside the SNOMED core and > national extension files, rather than for producing dynamically > evaluated termsets for local needs, as might be supported for > openEHR templates, say. > > eric > ---- > > On 2010-05-06, at 5:48 PM, Sebastian Garde wrote: > > > Hi Thomas, > > > > do you know if there is a formal way of how RefSets (=the > resulting Snomed CT codes etc.) and the RefSet query (=the query > on Snomed CT to get to the RefSet) are expressed and shared? > > Similar to what is described here but based on RefSets: > > http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/term/Ocean+Terminology+Query+Language+%28TQL%29 > > > > I agree that RefSets are a good way forward, but they need to be > available, reusable and sharable, etc. > > > > Sebastian > > > > Thomas Beale wrote: > >> > >> I attended the IHTSDO meeting just finished in Copenhagen. > Things look pretty good for where SNOMED CT is going generally - > the RF2 technical infrastructure seems relatively well designed. > There is a lot of activity in content modeling, the IHTSDO > workbench and many other areas relevant to openEHR. Converely, I > believe openEHR will be very important to make SNOMED CT work in > many places, since it will be via archetypes, templates and > associated ref sets that information systems will be able to > connect to terminology in a disciplined way. I believe that ref > sets are the future of SNOMED CT (and any terminology for that > matter) in use in real systems. > >> > >> I was asked to present a view from openEHR about 'terminology > binding', i.e. connecting terminology and information models. My > presentation is on this page > http://www.openehr.org/wiki/display/term/Terminology+Binding > >> or see the following direct links: > >> ? PDF - > > http://www.openehr.org/wiki/download/attachments/5997267/openEHR_term_binding_IHTSDO_april_2010.pdf > >> ? PPTX - > > http://www.openehr.org/wiki/download/attachments/5997267/openEHR_term_binding_IHTSDO_april_2010.pptx > >> I hope this is useful. I will continue to document > IHTSDO-related thoughts on the openEHR wiki, and I encourage > others to do the same. > >> > >> - thomas beale > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> openEHR-technical mailing list > >> > >> openEHR-technical at openehr.org > <mailto:openEHR-technical at openehr.org> > >> http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > openEHR-clinical mailing list > > openEHR-clinical at openehr.org <mailto:openEHR-clinical at openehr.org> > > http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical > > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-technical mailing list > openEHR-technical at openehr.org <mailto:openEHR-technical at openehr.org> > http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-technical mailing list > openEHR-technical at openehr.org <mailto:openEHR-technical at openehr.org> > http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-technical mailing list > openEHR-technical at openehr.org > http://lists.chime.ucl.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical > -- Ocean Informatics Dr Sebastian Garde Senior Developer Ocean Informatics /Dr. sc. hum., Dipl.-Inform. 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