Hi David, Firs of all, leaving aside licensing issues and the eventual RM choice, I would really appreciate working collaboratively on these models with your clinical guys. I would be happy to do this via CKM if you felt that might facilitate progress. As Sam says, lets make sure we keep the clinical models consistent even if the final formailsm differs. I don't think the usual 13606/opeEHR philosophical differences have much impact in the histopathology space and when I did the original work for the RCPA, I was impressed at the level of international cooperation that exits in the community already. In hindsight, I would have modelled some of the histopath content a bit differently and since none of these archetypes are formally published, we do have an opportunity to learn from that experience + of course include any new requirements that your clinicians identify.
With regard to licensing, firstly I agree with Sam that attribution is to the Foundation, and not to me personally. By all means send me a large cheque if that makes you feel better ;-) The reason for the current CC-BY-SA licensing is really only to try and prevent restrictive re-commerciaisation of archetypes that were originally developed withan open licence. There is no within the openEHr community about what we are trying to do. The differences of opinion are about how best to achieve this goal with the minimum of restriction So, the principles we are trying to work to are that ... 1. You are perfectly entitled to adapt or derive any openEHR archetypes 2. You are perfectly entitled to use these in a commercial application 3. Personally I am not bothered if you try to sell them (that may not be a consensus view). 4. We are definitely bothered if you try to assert copyright and attempt to restrict others from using or adapting the original archetypes or derivatives of those archetypes. It is (4) that is the key problem here and archetypes live in a tricky limbo between software artefacts and human document which means that legal opinion is not well-based on precedent or evidence and making a decision on the best licence is tricky. Personally, I take the view that, as a clinician, the work that I did was simply a restatement of universal clinical knowledge and as such must really stay in the open domain. One of the problems in this area is that CAP (College of American Pathologists) have done some similar histopath work, in particular defining SNOMED bindings but have locked the IP away. I think this is against the spirit of clinical knowledge development, though actually I know how to access the bindings via the public domain :-). I really do not know whether the transformation from an openEHR archetype to 13606 would be still be considered 'derivative' by a court of law but if we get into that world we have all lost the plot, in my opinion. To sum up. From a personal perspective and my interpretation of CC-BY-SA and the Foundation objectives, feel free to use anything you want. Unless you have a cunning plan to commercialise the archetypes and then lock the rest of us out, I do not see any problem at all, wether or not your work is regarded as derivative But let's find a way of collaborating - would you be interested in working via CKM, accepting that you might want to convert the end product to a 13606ENTRY? This is all part of a very interesting wider public debate about we reward those who create or add value to content/knowledge without the dead hand of patents and resultant legal dispute. Regards, Ian On 22 March 2012 12:03, David Moner <damoca at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > Back again with the licensing topic of archetypes, with a real use case. > > We have been asked to help in creating a set of 13606 archetypes for > breast and prostate cancer. Although they will probably incorporate some > new requirements, the main source will be some of the openEHR archetypes > available at the CKM. > Assuming that the have adopted a CC-BY(-SA) license (I cannot recall which > is the state of that discussion), the doubts are the following: > > - Converting the archetype to a new reference model is considered as a > derivation? Or the openEHR archetype is considered just as a reference > material as could be any textbook or paper? > - The author of the new archetype has to be the one of the openEHR > archetype (Ian McNicoll btw) or the person who in fact creates the new > RM-based archetype? > > The underlying question here that should be clarified is to define which > is the extension of the concept "derived work". > > David > > -- > David Moner Cano > Grupo de Inform?tica Biom?dica - IBIME > Instituto ITACA > http://www.ibime.upv.es > > Universidad Polit?cnica de Valencia (UPV) > Camino de Vera, s/n, Edificio G-8, Acceso B, 3? planta > Valencia ? 46022 (Espa?a) > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-clinical mailing list > openEHR-clinical at lists.openehr.org > > http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org > -- Dr Ian McNicoll office +44 (0)1536 414 994 fax +44 (0)1536 516317 mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 skype ianmcnicoll ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com Clinical Modelling Consultant, Ocean Informatics, UK Director/Clinical Knowledge Editor openEHR Foundation www.openehr.org/knowledge Honorary Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL SCIMP Working Group, NHS Scotland BCS Primary Health Care www.phcsg.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20120323/e3a13ff9/attachment.html>
