Hi Last thing first: We also have the need for «proposed». For that we use PLANNED. After all you can CANCEL from PLANNED, so it serves the purpose. I think the issue here is to not overinterpret the names in the state machine and to avoid making it overly complex.
I agree with your initial concern that the use of INITIAL state is not very clear. In the diagram it is grayed out, indicating that there is something special about it. I have come to think that it is the initial pseudo state, the one that in UML is a black filled circle. As such this state can never exist, meaning that there always must be an ACTION attached giving it a real state (there is no other way to assign a state). With this background I therefore agree with the replies from Heath. If your PR will lead to clarifications in the description or even in the state machine, I would like the following to be considered along the way: · Clarify if INITIAL is a real or pseudo state. Should there always be an ACTION giving each ACTIVITY a real state? · The Instruction State Machine (ISM) is actually an Activity State Machine (ASM). This is very confusing when introducing to new persons and I wonder if it would be beneficial with a name change here. The instruction aggregated state is really the state of the instruction. · There seems to be a missing transition “do” that goes directly from INITIAL to COMPLETED. This is needed both for ad hoc ACTIONS as well as one time ACTIVITIES that have already been done by the time of doing the “paper work”. It seems overly formal to have to model this through two ACTIONS. Vennlig hilsen Ivar Yrke Senior systemutvikler DIPS ASA Telefon +47 75 59 24 06 Mobil +47 90 78 89 33 Fra: openEHR-technical [mailto:[email protected]] På vegne av pablo pazos Sendt: 23. juli 2016 07:35 Til: openeh technical <[email protected]> Kopi: [email protected]; openehr clinical <[email protected]> Emne: RE: initial states for instructions / when do we need actions? Hi Etienne, did you checked the ISM specs? I think the flow phases you mention are mappable to the current states of the ISM. Also consider this conversation is about INSTRUCTION handling, not ACTION handling, ACTIONs are used to modify the state of the INSTRUCTION/ACTIVITY. -- Kind regards, Eng. Pablo Pazos Gutiérrez http://cabolabs.com<http://cabolabs.com/es/home> ________________________________ From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: initial states for instructions / when do we need actions? Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 19:35:12 +0200 CC: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Thank you very much for the schema. However I believe that the handling of an Action should start earlier before the "INITIAL" state. - "SUGGESTED" Preliminary informal suggestion, according to some generic guidelines, regardless of the details of the current context of the patient - "POROPSED" It could be useful to record temporarily proposals by student, junior assistant or nurse, or simply when a staff member is considering some action while waiting on more information from the lab. Nothing yet done, but information could be useful to be recorded temporarily as an element of discussion. - "VALIDATED" The decision for he action is confirmed by an authorised member of the staff. Although not yet scheduled. The author of an order is also responsible to specify a time range, from "very urgent" to "to be done within on month". If the time would have been outdated the order should be reevaluated. - etc as on the schema ..... - "STARTED" For example a treatment for 10 days is actually started. Or a bacteriology test which necessitate at least 24 hours. "COMPLETED" Completely executed. In priciple a conclusion is expected. Etienne Saliez On Wednesday, 13 July 2016 00:28:54 CEST Heath Frankel wrote: > Hi Pablo, > Some comments below. > > Heath > > From: openEHR-technical [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of pablo pazos Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 12:29 PM > To: openeh technical > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; > openehr clinical > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: ISM: > initial states for instructions / when do we need actions? > > Hi all, > > This message is related to my previous message "ACTIVITY.description vs > ACTION.description archetypes" (didn't got any answers :( but this is > focused on when we need actions to change a instruction state, and what's > the initial state. > > Considering the specs: > http://www.openehr.org/releases/RM/latest/docs/ehr/ehr.html#_the_standard_in > struction_state_machine_ism > > I think when an instruction is firstly recorded, it should have a state. But > I'm not 100% if that state should be INITIAL, or can also be PLANNED, > SCHEDULED or ACTIVE, since at least for SCHEDULED and ACTIVE I think we > need an ACTION to be recorded to trigger the transition, but it is not > clear that we need that to trigger the transition "initiate (INITIAL -> > PLANNED)". > > [HKF: ] I personally consider the Initial state as your standard state > diagram starting point rather than a usable state. The AE has allowed the > initial state to be used, which I think is incorrect and we translate this > to a subsequent state for real use. > > 1- Is INITIAL the state associated with an instruction when no action is > recorded? > > [HKF: ] This is how I consider this. In fact I usually explain to my > developers that an instruction is not initiated unless there is an action > to start the instructions workflow. Without an action, it is just a > definition of an instruction that is waiting to have its workflow started. > > 2- If what it's recorded is a medication prescription, I guess the initial > state should be PLANNED, do we need to record an action alongside with the > instruction to make the "initiate (INITIAL -> PLANNED)" transition? OR, we > can just set the initial state to PLANNED, even though no actions are > recorded for the instruction/activity? > > [HKF: ] As indicated, I would have an ACTION with a PLANNED state to make > this clear. You may choose to go straight to Active. > > 3- On the case of recording a treatment that should be scheduled, do we also > need an action to trigger the "schedule (INITIAL -> SCHEDULED)" transition? > (I guess yes if the instruction is created at one time, and the schedule > comes later). > > [HKF: ] As above. > > 3.1- If yes, what happens on the case the instruction includes scheduling? > Should we include an action to trigger the transition or can we set the > state to SCHEDULED directly? > > [HKF: ] Sorry, I don’t understand this one. > > > At least for me this is not 100% on the specs. If this happens to others, we > might need to improve the specs and add more examples to make this topic > clear for newcomers. > > Thanks! > > > -- > Kind regards, > Eng. Pablo Pazos Gutiérrez > http://cabolabs.com _______________________________________________ openEHR-technical mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
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