On 3/18/19 9:05 AM, Martin Jansa wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 03:21:27PM +0000, Richard Purdie wrote:
>> I think in the recent climate there is a strong case for kernel stable
>> series or openssl, requested or not (presumably someone would request
>> regardless). The boost change was an exception rather than the rule and
>> to me its a sign we need to get better at review.
> Well openssl is another example which caused me most pain in various
> stable branches, mostly because of version-script.patch taken from
> debian, where we were changing ABI even during minor version upgrades
> (we have a few prebuilt binaries included in our images, which get
> completely broken just by small stable branch upgrade and getting new
> prebuilt binaries from other companies might be complicated as well as
> expensive, e.g.:
> http://git.openembedded.org/openembedded-core/commit/?h=sumo&id=1b430eef7131876bc735c22d66358379b0516821
> )
>
> So they might have good record of security fixes getting into stable
> branches, but not very good for keeping the ABI stable (partially
> self-inflicted by us).
>
>> I'm going to say something here and its not directed to Martin but to
>> everyone.
>>
>> I personally get *really* depressed when people complain about the
>> processes when it breaks for their personal situation. Some people like
>> Armin and like myself try and juggle hundreds of patches and keep
>> everyone happy. There has been a huge change in project resources and
>> yet we're keeping going fairly unchanged. The fact quality hasn't
>> totally collapsed is frankly quite amazing in some ways.
>>
>> There is huge pressure from people to get changes into stable quickly.
>> I cannot get people to test changes in master for a time period before
>> requesting backport. There is also huge pressure to accept no changes
>> that break anything or impact any workflows. My personal answer to this
>> has been to work on our testing, I've spent months trying to make
>> things more efficient, increase coverage and better able to highlight
>> problems. I don't see much other help/interest in it.
>>
>> I've also just spent a week away from home trying to explain to
>> companies why they might care about us having servers for a decent test
>> infrastructure (ideally to them we'd abstract it into the could and it
>> would all happen by magic, paid for by ether).
>>
>> I guess my ask here is that as well as complaining to Armin and myself
>> when we mess something up (sadly we are likely to do it again much as
>> we might try not to), please also highlight to the people who depend on
>> the project that we do need help with things like patch review and
>> other resources e.g. YP membership.
> I'm glad this wasn't targeted to me, because 1) I wasn't really
> complaining about you nor Armin nor Khem (and I'm sorry if that sounded
> like that) 2) after doing that for many years with meta-oe/meta-qt5 and
> many other layers I know how painful/depressing/ungrateful this patch
> juggling is (one of the reasons why I've walked away from some of it).
>
> But the resource issues is part of my point
>
> If someone explicitly asks for backport, then it's more likely he or she
> will verify that the upgrade fixes the issue seen there, if it breaks
> something else as well, then too bad and it will need another fix as
> well, but at least we can show that there was good reason for that
> backport in first place.
>
> In boost example (I'm not complaining, it's just good example for what
> I'm trying to say), I understand why it looked like safe upgrade and
> generally good idea to backport, but then when people complain and there
> is no explanation nor review on ML to show why the extra risk was worth
> it (and than the blame unfortunately falls mostly on Armin and you,
> instead of the requester of the backport).
It fails on my shoulders. RP expects me to do the right thing. I messed
up here.  The sad thing is we spent a lot of time on discussing "Boost" 
that we failed to send simple revert patch. I will take core of the
shortly.  Since Greg KH and the kernel was mentioned, they too do reverts.

>
> I mean: doing the upgrades, just because they are available (like AUH
> enforces) is more work for everybody and might cause some extra pain to
> stable branch maintainers and users.
I would never allow AUH to be part of the Stable process.   I we did a
backport request only stable branch policy, life would be easy.

- armin
>
> Are there (m)any people complaining that stable branches doesn't get
> enough bugfix updates (not counting those requesting the actual
> backport, because they see the bug in their product)?
>
> Regards,
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openembedded-architecture mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.openembedded.org/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-architecture

Attachment: signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

_______________________________________________
Openembedded-architecture mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.openembedded.org/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-architecture

Reply via email to