Dear all, In order to move forward as Fabien said, I suggest to write down on a pad what we do think OCB is and how do we see it. I started something here:
http://pad.openerp.com/p/OCB-Branches It's mainly inspired by this discussion and by the definition Stefan made on the LP project and first description on the mailing. I though it was the best we have currently and on which we mainly all agree at the beginning. This is just a first draft, please add your changes and suggestions. Regards, Joël On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected]> wrote: > In order to move forward, the next step is to draft a community > statement on the role of OCB branches. Because it looks like you expect > more than the initial goals (backport of bugs fixed in trunk on v7) > > What do you expect from the ocb branches? Possible answers: > > 1/ A more "up-to-date" branch where bugfixes are applied by the > community faster than in official v7. > 2/ A way to improve collaboration OpenERP SA-Community by having a way > to simplify the code review process for OpenERP SA to merge faster in > stable. > 3/ A branch where you can push nice-to-have or wishlist features that > you need for your projects or community modules > 4/ A branch where you can improve the code in a more 'clean' way by > breaking API, schema... > 5/ A way to change design decisions such as default behaviors or values > on which you may disagree on the path chosen in the stable branch > > > And it's important to balance this, with the 'cost' or responsibilities > indirectly linked to these roles: > > 1/ If the goal of ocb is to have a more stable branch, are you ready to > apply strict stable policies which slows down the MP process and > forces to refuse more MP. > > 2/ If the goal is to have both project (ocb-stable) to benefit from > each other, are you ready to accept our code review decisions so > that you can continuously merge back stable into ocb. (e.g. if we > revert some of your changes while doing our code review and merging > ocb in stable, would you merge this change back to ocb or will you > maintain separate features?) > > 3/ If you want to push new features in OCB rather than putting them in > community modules, are you ready to accept potential new regressions > and bugs. > > 4/ If you want to be able to break API or schema to improve code, are > you ready to pay an extra effort every time you want to apply latest > bugfixes in your production environments. (no conflict with your > custom module, -u, ...) > > 5/ If you want to use ocb to apply others design decisions than the > stable one, are you ready to maintain this fork for the long term? > v8, v9, ... > > > If we succeed to answer these, then everyone will probably agree on the > best way to organise MP and ocb branches. > > On 10/29/2013 10:09 AM, Joël Grand-Guillaume wrote: > > Dear Fabien, > > > > > > First, thank you a lot for your input in here, this prove (as you said) > > your interest in that ! For being too rude, there no problem on my side, > > I know you for quite a while now and I won't take it personally, I > > always preferred the thinking being said ! That's the way we move things > ! > > > > We do use OCB at Camptocamp without exception in ALL our customers > > projects. I share more than ever Stefan's Opinion : > > > > " > > /So we still disagree (no surprises there) but OCB is working perfectly > > for us. When running OCB, we can be sure that every approved bugfix that > > we supplied is included so that we don't encounter the same bugs again > > for every customer. A dedicated group of community developers (and their > > customers) is benefiting from each other's quality bugfixes and reviews. > > I love it. It has taught me a lot on programming, communities, code > > standards and OpenERP itself. It has improved my life with OpenERP in > > terms of practicalities and got me in contact with a lot of knowledgable > > and friendly people that I now consider my extended colleagues./ > > " > > > > Reasons for OCB to exists: > > > > * We can share efforts between well experienced integrators to fix and > > ensure those fix in time for our customers > > * We really have now a strong knowledge in there that probably exceed > > yours in various areas (no offense) > > * We can fix what OpenERP SA don't want to consider (for good and some > > times no good reasons IMO) > > * We have a way to react much more faster when facing a trouble, and my > > customers are very happy with that trust me (OPW works, but take a hell > > of time until it land in our customer server) > > * In complex integrations that we do, some changes are required to make > > OpenERP work in production, changes that my not be compatible with your > > policies. That do not need we don't need them ! > > > > On your remarks: > > > > * OCB didn't introduce more bugs (or not more than you do), some tests > > fails because they are wrong and need to be adapted / corrected that's > > probably 99% of the reasons why OCB is not green ! > > > > * OCB do take some other choice than OpenERP SA do regarding some > > "won't fix" or "invalid" bugs as we do not consider those bug as this. > > It's may be a matter of opinion, I respect that. I can't simply say to > > my customers I don't want to fix, you have the right of saying so. > > > > * OCB reviews are probably as good (and IMO better) than yours. We can > > make mistake, that's human. We really take care about what we're doing > > here and that comes from the most skilled partners and integrators you > > have. If they don't make things good who do ? > > > > * OCB need to improve on the review process and tests I agree and we're > > working on it ! > > > > My personal opinion concerning OCB (that's just me) is that in some time > > (not that long, may be a year or two), OCB will be more than a > > reference. We'll grow as a community, we'll get stronger and better. And > > we'll one day have more resources than OpenERP SA it-self (which is not > > the case yet). As you said, the question is know how to better integrate > > OCB with Stable (and vice-versa) to benefit from that. > > > > We're on the same ship here as always. Everyone has his own interests > > about keeping the stable policy here and make it different there. At a > > point, you may not agree on some changes, that's your right. We think > > the changes we've made are mandatory. We are ready to manage and > > maintain those changes for the good of our customers. > > > > So, at the end, the question will be : How OpenERP SA can benefit from > > us ;) ?! > > > > I'm not in favor of having 2 OCB branches (too much work). I think OCB > > should be part of the Official project (it deserve it). Weekly merge > > from OCB to Stable should be done with your review (accepting what you > > want, and not what you don't). This is manageable and you will still get > > lot's of input from us (making the bugfix process quicker). You'll spend > > less time merging our work with some filter rather than re-making the > > fix we already did. > > > > A day or another, the OCB changes will land in trunk or die depending on > > the fact it has been proven to be mandatory for everyone or a mistake > > from us (OCB team). I make the bet we're gonna be right more than you > > may think, but surely not always. > > > > I see no better solution given the interest of both of us, and I > > consider a good one, what do you think ? > > > > Thanks for all this enthusiast, > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Joël > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > Sorry but my feeling is this suddent interest from S.A. in OCB is > > more about "control" and "fear"... If you really want to help, stop > > spreading FUD > > > > No. Sorry if I was not clear. > > > > My only intention is to have an ocb branch that works so that people > > can rely on it and we can easily merge it in stable to improve ocb. > > > > > > I seriously think that if we define a better policy and process than > > the current one, ocb can become a great way to improve community > > contribution to the stable branch. > > > > I also think that if you continue diverging from the stable and > > accept anything in ocb branches, ocb will become less and less > > interesting for the community. > > > > My preceeding mail is may be too rude. But I really thing it's > > important for ocb branch to setup a test server and a better merge > > policy. > > > > As I said; this is my point of view and we will support your > > decision about what you want to do with ocb. > > > > > > > and start showing that you respect and appreciate the work from > > our community, and that is only possible with ACTIONS, not words.... > > > > I do appreciate the community and such great contribution. (OpenERP > > would not be open source, if we did not have an inconditionaly full > > support for open source and community) > > > > If I participate to these mail, it's to help ocb move forward and do > > even better. Do you think it's better if don't tell you what we > think? > > > > I think ocb can be great if we improve a few things (runbot, clear > > policy, stricter code review) and that's the reason why I give you > > my point of view. > > > > > > > > > > Fabien > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > > Post to : [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > *camptocamp* > > INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS > > BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS > > > > *Joël Grand-Guillaume* > > Division Manager > > Business Solutions > > > > +41 21 619 10 28 > > www.camptocamp.com <http://www.camptocamp.com/> > > > > > > > -- > Fabien Pinckaers > CEO OpenERP > Chaussée de Namur 40 > B-1367 Grand-Rosière > Belgium > Phone: +32.81.81.37.00 > Fax: +32.81.73.35.01 > Web: http://openerp.com > -- *camptocamp* INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS *Joël Grand-Guillaume* Division Manager Business Solutions +41 21 619 10 28 www.camptocamp.com
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