Hello Fabien,
Fist, I have congratulate you and your team for the great work you've
been doing. You're pushing opensource to new frontiers.
I'm also glad to see that you're taking scalability issue seriously and
taking them into account in product development.
I'm sure pretty soon we'll see some independent benchmarking
validating this.
But I still worry about SECURITY,and I feel that I'm not alone in this.
Firstly, before entering in technical aspects, the line of discourse I
hear on this is somewhat dismissive.
The argumentation we hear goes between "we're sure it's secure, take our
word on it" and "the others aren't better".
This is not very reassuring.
Security is an complex issue, and it surely does not depend solely on
the application, but it's important to be sure that OpenERP is not a weak
link.
It would be important for OpenERP to have a detailed security analysis.
Take this example: web2py states[1] "web2py was reviewed for security
and you can find the result of the review in <ref>."
And the detailed security analysis is avaliable at pythonsecurity.org[2].
You can see most important web frameworks and ORMs are analysed there.
Why not having something like this for OpenERP.
With this you could surely state that "OpenERP is a secure platform, and
you don't need to take our word on this: see what the experts say".
My constructive 2 cents.
Regards
/DR
Quoting Fabien Pinckaers <f...@openerp.com>:
* When you're facing hundreds of orders a days and thousands
visitors, you'll not succeed to have it all in one instance.
Imagine, who will block his operation because they have too much
click on their front-end ? Fors that reason (and security if you
matter about), you'll prefer 2 servers.
Don't agree AT ALL.
- OpenERP is built to scale (*)
- A full featured OpenERP will be much faster than Magento or Prestashop
You point is only valid if magento or prestashop are faster and
allow to scale more than OpenERP. But it's actually the opposite!
Why will OpenERP be always faster than MagentoCommerce and
Prestashop. Because it's much simpler and, thus, much easier to
optimize. Just check the number of lines of code:
- OpenERP (with ALL modules: CRM, Accounting, WMS, eCommerce,
Events, ...): 150k lines of code, only 15k for CMS+eCommerce+events
- Magento (WITHOUT any module, version 1.8): 918k lines of code
- Prestashop (WITHOUT any module): 257k lines of code
So, at equivalent-features, OpenERP has around 10x less lines of code.
One is easier to optimize and scale and the others are not :)
It's not because we do more that we are more complex or slower.
(*) all massive read operations are O(1), we fine tuned it for huge
transactions. Only one module was a bottleneck to scale huge sales,
it's "stock", and its refactoring for v8 makes it become super fast
and its speed is not anymore dependent on the number of historic
transactions.
Our SaaS servers already manages millions of documents per server,
without any issues. Try to do that with Magento.
* base_synchro is clearely not an option to separate 2
OpenERP servers. It's has simply been abandoned by OpenERP for good
reasons IMO (bad design, to many troubles in real uses cases, no
atomic transaction to inappropriate to sync ERP datas).
base_synchro is not perfect. We still use it on some projects. We
removed it from v7 because we think it's nor for end-users as it's
too complex but it helped us a lot. Camptocamp's connector may be an
option too.
My point is not to use this or that, but: it's much easier to sync
OpenERP with OpenERP rather than OpenERP with something else.
* This included ecommerce is a great step forward and
people will love it. But other e-commerce platform (like Magento,
Prestashop and lot's of others) have years of experience and devs
behind them. They provide lot's of advance products, sales and
scaling features that you will not found in OpenERP E-commerce yet.
That's actually their main issue! They have years of technical debt.
They became bloated and have difficulties to evolve.
* In case you're running a important e-commerce solution, I think
you will definitely keep 2 tools and use a connector in-between
(like https://code.launchpad.net/openerp-connector)
For others purposes, like HR & recruitment, events publication and
more, this new feature is clearly a big advantage. It will also
serve small companies for their first e-commerce experience and
that's great ! This is also a first step in the direction of having
one tools to rules front and back end together. But I cannot
reasonably imagine it's viable for middle to large companies
currently.
If you think OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, you are
missing the point completly. OpenERP is designed to handle big
companies need, much more than current eCommerce software. We are
only at v1 and I bet we can already serve big companies much better
than Magento. I think that if we do a list of features, OpenERP has
more green marks, even on v1!
Side note: our videos emphasized on useability and simple interface.
It does not mean that we don't handle complex/advanced needs. It's
OpenERP afterall :)
Another way to view this: the eCommerce module is only 2600 lines of
code. Even if something is missing in v1, it's a piece of cake to
add a new feature on such a clean structure. (and you don't have to
learn a new language/framework)
module and ported to v7. There is an outstanding merge request in to
server-env-tools on v7 branch which as yet has not
been reviewed. So
if you require this functionality then please test it
and get it
merged.
It adds a new module, base_synchro_auto for automating
synchronisation, automatic population of fields with
boolean style
selection of fields to sync. There is a third module
which I am
trying to work out how to make generic which is an
initialisation and
configuration module for existing databases which will
match up all
the existing matching records prior to syncing.
It won't do translations AFAIK (although maybe syncing the
ir_translations table does it, I don't know), but
forms a good base
upon which to extend.
https://code.launchpad.net/~gdgellatly/server-env-tools/base-synchro-7.0/+merge/200127
On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Mariano Ruiz
<mrs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fabien says:
>
> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend
(and use modules like
> base_synchro to sync them)
>
>
> But, the base_synchro module is not supported any
more from the 6.1 version.
> We use this to sync two OpenERP 6.1 instance, and
we found a lot of bug in
> this module. A special error related for this
discussion: the module not
> sync translatable fields! only export the original
value, without
> translations.
>
> We report this, but the response was:
"base_synchro" doesn't exist anymore
> on trunk and in stable release 7.0, So this issue
doesn't affect to trunk.
>
> So, we fix the module, but only tested in 6.1
version, maybe for 7.0 and
> trunk version is not working, check the bug #1195801.
>
>
> 2014/1/18 Fabien Pinckaers <f...@openerp.com>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> As an example, we just did a quick prototype to
illustrate my point.
>> >> Check this video, a new way of doing quotations:
>> >>
>> >>
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5SDZFcEJmTXFyNTA/edit?usp=sharing
>> >
>> > This is awesome. I imagine instead of sending a
customer a quotation
>> > with 100 pages, you can have a interactive
webpage, including graphics,
>> > videos, 3d-modells and all the stuff.
>> >
>> >> This is so cool. I bet it improves quotes
success rate by at least 20%!
>> >
>> > If we have the first customer implementing this,
i will ask him to do a
>> > A/B-Testing to validate your numbers ;)
>>
>> We will use this for our own need within 4 weeks.
So, I will be able to
>> provide stats.
>>
>> >
>> >> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the
backend (and use modules like
>> >> base_synchro to sync them)
>> >
>> > What is the branch on that, so that we can have
a look in details?
>>
>> It s an official module since v6
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Greetings
>> >
>> > Markus
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dipl.-Comp.-Math. Markus Schneider
>> > Softwareentwickler
>> >
>> > initOS GmbH & Co. KG
>> > An der Eisenbahn 1
>> > 21224 Rosengarten
>> >
>> > Mobil: +49 (0)172 2303699[3]
>> > Phone: +49 (0)4105 5615613[4]
>> > Fax: +49 (0)4105 5615610[5]
>> >
>> > Email: markus.schnei...@initos.com
>> > Web: http://www.initos.com
>> >
>> > Geschäftsführung:
>> > Dipl. Wirt.-Inf. Frederik Kramer & Dipl.-Ing.
(FH) Torsten Francke
>> > Haftende Gesellschafterin: initOS Verwaltungs GmbH
>> >
>> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Rosengarten ? Klecken
>> > Amtsgericht Tostedt, HRA 201840
>> > USt-IdNr: DE 275698169
>> > Steuer-Nr: 15/205/21402
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Mariano Ruiz
> Software Architect & Web Developer
> http://www.mrdev.com.ar
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
CAMPTOCAMP
INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS
JOëL GRAND-GUILLAUME
Division Manager
Business Solutions
+41 21 619 10 28
www.camptocamp.com[6]
Ligações:
---------
[1] <a href="http://www.web2py.com/book/default/chapter/01#Security">
http://www.web2py.com/book/default/chapter/01#Security</a>
[2] <a href="http://www.pythonsecurity.org/wiki/web2py/">
http://www.pythonsecurity.org/wiki/web2py/</a>
[3] <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29172%202303699">
tel:%2B49%20%280%29172%202303699</a>
[4] <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%294105%205615613">
tel:%2B49%20%280%294105%205615613</a>
[5] <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%294105%205615610">
tel:%2B49%20%280%294105%205615610</a>
[6] <a href="http://www.camptocamp.com/"> http://www.camptocamp.com/</a>
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