On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected]> wrote:
> > * OpenERP isn't able to sync easily with another OpenERP instance to have >> 2 server, one for e-commerce, one for ERP. It's more easy to do though than >> sync 2 different systems you're right, but nothing concrete exists today. >> > > > base_synchro exists and works. It's not perfect, it's very complex, it's > painful, but it works. > But I think that syncing OpenERP-Magento is the same pain, whether it's > with your connectors or others community modules. Does it work > out-of-the-box by non developers? There will always be some tricky features > that will require tricky devs. > > > * OpenERP scale well (saas is the proof), but still we face performance >> issue quite often in our important project. By putting OpenERP as a front >> and back end on a same server can have dramatical issue regarding the >> company's operations, I will not take that risk for my important (in terms >> of orders/users) customers at this stage. >> > > Yes, but I think most performance issue are fixed on v8. > > Again, I am not telling OpenERP is perfect. I just say that you will also > have performance issues with Magento (or others) and probably more than > with OpenERP. We fixed all performance issues EVER reported at OpenERP SA. > (some are only fixed in v8, like POS and stock related ones) > > >> * OpenERP has less code. That is good, easier to maintain, that's great. >> Now, lot's of feature are today missing compare to other e-commerce >> platform: bundle product (like Dell computer configuration), >> multi-dimensional variant (and I'm speaking here of their configuration and >> day-to-day use, try to change a variant of T-shirt with color, size and >> logo), cross-selling, up-selling, etc.. But we need a start right ? And in >> that you did something huge, as you said this is v1.0, it's amazing, but it >> hasn't yet all features that other have today. >> > > I think you don't know what openerp provides by default: variants are > working, cross-selling too, up-selling too. > > And they are plenty of things that OpenERP do and Magento don't. Most of > the features announced for magento 2 are already in OpenERP: SEO optimized, > page designer, support for huge number of products, better modularity, ... > @Fabien: a Q here: SEO will affect other apps in my instance ? Regards, > But do you manage all these features with Magento connectors? If OpenERP > don't manage it, you will not get it working with a connector too. > > > Seriously, this discussion is too subjective to be constructive. > > What will matter is how much productive are you to deploy > CMS-eCommerce-ERP with either Magento+OpenERP+Connector or just OpenERP. > (including time needed to develop missing features). > > * OpenERP E-Commerce will I'm sure fit big company needs in the future, >> but today it doesn't. >> > > No. Sorry, I don't agree. > You say that, but you don't know what's inside OpenERP eCommerce. > > It does support big companies as much as Magento does. (and probably even > more) > > > >> It doesn't means your new module isn't great and bring new rules and >> standards in the place and for that I love it ! >> > > You can try to categorize OpenERP eCommerce for small companies. > But do that at your own risks. > > Others partners that will deploy OpenERP eCommerce will be more > competitive than those that go with Magento+OpenERP+Connector. > > If you want to claim OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, please > have real arguments "It's too slow with X products or Y orders, while > Magento is fast", "it miss this features that costs more to develop than > the deployment cost of the connector", ... > > > Overall, I think it's a waste of time to try to convince each others. > > On your side: You should test it, and judge based on your tests. (or, > better, sell it to firsts customers and judge based on ROI) > On my side: I should release something so great that there will be no > discussion anymore. (including on the security layer) > > > Fabien > > > >> Joël >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >>>> * When you're facing hundreds of orders a days and thousands visitors, >>>> you'll not succeed to have it all in one instance. Imagine, who will block >>>> his operation because they have too much click on their front-end ? Fors >>>> that reason (and security if you matter about), you'll prefer 2 servers. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Don't agree AT ALL. >>> >>> - OpenERP is built to scale (*) >>> - A full featured OpenERP will be much faster than Magento or >>> Prestashop >>> >>> You point is only valid if magento or prestashop are faster and allow to >>> scale more than OpenERP. But it's actually the opposite! >>> >>> Why will OpenERP be always faster than MagentoCommerce and Prestashop. >>> Because it's much simpler and, thus, much easier to optimize. Just check >>> the number of lines of code: >>> - OpenERP (with ALL modules: CRM, Accounting, WMS, eCommerce, Events, >>> ...): 150k lines of code, only 15k for CMS+eCommerce+events >>> - Magento (WITHOUT any module, version 1.8): 918k lines of code >>> - Prestashop (WITHOUT any module): 257k lines of code >>> >>> So, at equivalent-features, OpenERP has around 10x less lines of code. >>> One is easier to optimize and scale and the others are not :) >>> It's not because we do more that we are more complex or slower. >>> >>> >>> (*) all massive read operations are O(1), we fine tuned it for huge >>> transactions. Only one module was a bottleneck to scale huge sales, it's >>> "stock", and its refactoring for v8 makes it become super fast and its >>> speed is not anymore dependent on the number of historic transactions. >>> >>> Our SaaS servers already manages millions of documents per server, >>> without any issues. Try to do that with Magento. >>> >>> >>>> * base_synchro is clearely not an option to separate 2 OpenERP >>>> servers. It's has simply been abandoned by OpenERP for good reasons IMO >>>> (bad design, to many troubles in real uses cases, no atomic transaction to >>>> inappropriate to sync ERP datas). >>>> >>> >>> base_synchro is not perfect. We still use it on some projects. We >>> removed it from v7 because we think it's nor for end-users as it's too >>> complex but it helped us a lot. Camptocamp's connector may be an option too. >>> >>> My point is not to use this or that, but: it's much easier to sync >>> OpenERP with OpenERP rather than OpenERP with something else. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> * This included ecommerce is a great step forward and people will love >>>> it. But other e-commerce platform (like Magento, Prestashop and lot's of >>>> others) have years of experience and devs behind them. They provide lot's >>>> of advance products, sales and scaling features that you will not found in >>>> OpenERP E-commerce yet. >>>> >>> >>> That's actually their main issue! They have years of technical debt. >>> They became bloated and have difficulties to evolve. >>> >>> >>> * In case you're running a important e-commerce solution, I think you >>>> will definitely keep 2 tools and use a connector in-between (like >>>> https://code.launchpad.net/openerp-connector) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> For others purposes, like HR & recruitment, events publication and more, >>>> this new feature is clearly a big advantage. It will also serve small >>>> companies for their first e-commerce experience and that's great ! This is >>>> also a first step in the direction of having one tools to rules front and >>>> back end together. But I cannot reasonably imagine it's viable for middle >>>> to large companies currently. >>>> >>> >>> If you think OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, you are missing >>> the point completly. OpenERP is designed to handle big companies need, much >>> more than current eCommerce software. We are only at v1 and I bet we can >>> already serve big companies much better than Magento. I think that if we do >>> a list of features, OpenERP has more green marks, even on v1! >>> >>> >>> Side note: our videos emphasized on useability and simple interface. It >>> does not mean that we don't handle complex/advanced needs. It's OpenERP >>> afterall :) >>> >>> Another way to view this: the eCommerce module is only 2600 lines of >>> code. Even if something is missing in v1, it's a piece of cake to add a new >>> feature on such a clean structure. (and you don't have to learn a new >>> language/framework) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> module and ported to v7. There is an outstanding merge request in to >>>>> server-env-tools on v7 branch which as yet has not been reviewed. So >>>>> if you require this functionality then please test it and get it >>>>> merged. >>>>> >>>>> It adds a new module, base_synchro_auto for automating >>>>> synchronisation, automatic population of fields with boolean style >>>>> selection of fields to sync. There is a third module which I am >>>>> trying to work out how to make generic which is an initialisation and >>>>> configuration module for existing databases which will match up all >>>>> the existing matching records prior to syncing. >>>>> >>>>> It won't do translations AFAIK (although maybe syncing the >>>>> ir_translations table does it, I don't know), but forms a good base >>>>> upon which to extend. >>>>> >>>>> https://code.launchpad.net/~gdgellatly/server-env-tools/base-synchro-7.0/+merge/200127 >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Mariano Ruiz <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Fabien says: >>>>> > >>>>> > 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules >>>>> like >>>>> > base_synchro to sync them) >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > But, the base_synchro module is not supported any more from the 6.1 >>>>> version. >>>>> > We use this to sync two OpenERP 6.1 instance, and we found a lot of >>>>> bug in >>>>> > this module. A special error related for this discussion: the module >>>>> not >>>>> > sync translatable fields! only export the original value, without >>>>> > translations. >>>>> > >>>>> > We report this, but the response was: "base_synchro" doesn't exist >>>>> anymore >>>>> > on trunk and in stable release 7.0, So this issue doesn't affect to >>>>> trunk. >>>>> > >>>>> > So, we fix the module, but only tested in 6.1 version, maybe for 7.0 >>>>> and >>>>> > trunk version is not working, check the bug #1195801. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 2014/1/18 Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected]> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >> As an example, we just did a quick prototype to illustrate my >>>>> point. >>>>> >> >> Check this video, a new way of doing quotations: >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5SDZFcEJmTXFyNTA/edit?usp=sharing >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > This is awesome. I imagine instead of sending a customer a >>>>> quotation >>>>> >> > with 100 pages, you can have a interactive webpage, including >>>>> graphics, >>>>> >> > videos, 3d-modells and all the stuff. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >> This is so cool. I bet it improves quotes success rate by at >>>>> least 20%! >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > If we have the first customer implementing this, i will ask him >>>>> to do a >>>>> >> > A/B-Testing to validate your numbers ;) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> We will use this for our own need within 4 weeks. So, I will be >>>>> able to >>>>> >> provide stats. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> >> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use >>>>> modules like >>>>> >> >> base_synchro to sync them) >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > What is the branch on that, so that we can have a look in details? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> It s an official module since v6 >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Greetings >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Markus >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > -- >>>>> >> > Dipl.-Comp.-Math. Markus Schneider >>>>> >> > Softwareentwickler >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > initOS GmbH & Co. KG >>>>> >> > An der Eisenbahn 1 >>>>> >> > 21224 Rosengarten >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Mobil: +49 (0)172 2303699 >>>>> >> > Phone: +49 (0)4105 5615613 >>>>> >> > Fax: +49 (0)4105 5615610 >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Email: [email protected] >>>>> >> > Web: http://www.initos.com >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Geschäftsführung: >>>>> >> > Dipl. Wirt.-Inf. Frederik Kramer & Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Francke >>>>> >> > Haftende Gesellschafterin: initOS Verwaltungs GmbH >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Rosengarten – Klecken >>>>> >> > Amtsgericht Tostedt, HRA 201840 >>>>> >> > USt-IdNr: DE 275698169 >>>>> >> > Steuer-Nr: 15/205/21402 >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community >>>>> >> Post to : [email protected] >>>>> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community >>>>> >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Mariano Ruiz >>>>> > Software Architect & Web Developer >>>>> > http://www.mrdev.com.ar >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community >>>>> > Post to : [email protected] >>>>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community >>>>> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community >>>>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community >>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> *camptocamp* >>>> INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS >>>> BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS >>>> >>>> *Joël Grand-Guillaume* >>>> Division Manager >>>> Business Solutions >>>> >>>> +41 21 619 10 28 >>>> www.camptocamp.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> *camptocamp* >> INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS >> BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS >> >> *Joël Grand-Guillaume* >> Division Manager >> Business Solutions >> >> +41 21 619 10 28 >> www.camptocamp.com >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > Post to : [email protected] > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > -- Cristian Salamea @ovnicraft
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