"release something so great that there will be no discussion anymore"
I Don't think this is heath way for a open source project
Make customer surprise is a good market point, but keep making partners
surprise is touching their bottom line !
------------------
Jeff Wang | [email protected] | 18016291663 | 02158980787
@OpenERP_Jeff "As simple as possible, As complex as needed"
Maintainer of Open ERP china community
http://www.openerp-china.org
------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Fabien Pinckaers";<[email protected]>;
Date: Tue, Jan 21, 2014 01:54 AM
To: "Joël Grand-Guillaum"<[email protected]>;
Cc:
"[email protected]"<[email protected]>;
"Frederik Kramer"<[email protected]>;
Subject: Re: [Openerp-community] OpenERP CMS: How is server
separationimplemented?
* OpenERP isn't able to sync easily with another OpenERP instance to have 2
server, one for e-commerce, one for ERP. It's more easy to do though than sync
2 different systems you're right, but nothing concrete exists today.
base_synchro exists and works. It's not perfect, it's very complex, it's
painful, but it works.
But I think that syncing OpenERP-Magento is the same pain, whether it's with
your connectors or others community modules. Does it work out-of-the-box by non
developers? There will always be some tricky features that will require tricky
devs.
* OpenERP scale well (saas is the proof), but still we face performance issue
quite often in our important project. By putting OpenERP as a front and back
end on a same server can have dramatical issue regarding the company's
operations, I will not take that risk for my important (in terms of
orders/users) customers at this stage.
Yes, but I think most performance issue are fixed on v8.
Again, I am not telling OpenERP is perfect. I just say that you will also have
performance issues with Magento (or others) and probably more than with
OpenERP. We fixed all performance issues EVER reported at OpenERP SA. (some are
only fixed in v8, like POS and stock related ones)
* OpenERP has less code. That is good, easier to maintain, that's great. Now,
lot's of feature are today missing compare to other e-commerce platform: bundle
product (like Dell computer configuration), multi-dimensional variant (and I'm
speaking here of their configuration and day-to-day use, try to change a
variant of T-shirt with color, size and logo), cross-selling, up-selling, etc..
But we need a start right ? And in that you did something huge, as you said
this is v1.0, it's amazing, but it hasn't yet all features that other have
today.
I think you don't know what openerp provides by default: variants are working,
cross-selling too, up-selling too.
And they are plenty of things that OpenERP do and Magento don't. Most of the
features announced for magento 2 are already in OpenERP: SEO optimized, page
designer, support for huge number of products, better modularity, ...
But do you manage all these features with Magento connectors? If OpenERP don't
manage it, you will not get it working with a connector too.
Seriously, this discussion is too subjective to be constructive.
What will matter is how much productive are you to deploy CMS-eCommerce-ERP
with either Magento+OpenERP+Connector or just OpenERP. (including time needed
to develop missing features).
* OpenERP E-Commerce will I'm sure fit big company needs in the future, but
today it doesn't.
No. Sorry, I don't agree.
You say that, but you don't know what's inside OpenERP eCommerce.
It does support big companies as much as Magento does. (and probably even more)
It doesn't means your new module isn't great and bring new rules and standards
in the place and for that I love it !
You can try to categorize OpenERP eCommerce for small companies.
But do that at your own risks.
Others partners that will deploy OpenERP eCommerce will be more competitive
than those that go with Magento+OpenERP+Connector.
If you want to claim OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, please have
real arguments "It's too slow with X products or Y orders, while Magento is
fast", "it miss this features that costs more to develop than the deployment
cost of the connector", ...
Overall, I think it's a waste of time to try to convince each others.
On your side: You should test it, and judge based on your tests. (or, better,
sell it to firsts customers and judge based on ROI)
On my side: I should release something so great that there will be no
discussion anymore. (including on the security layer)
Fabien
Joël
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected]> wrote:
* When you're facing hundreds of orders a days and thousands visitors, you'll
not succeed to have it all in one instance. Imagine, who will block his
operation because they have too much click on their front-end ? Fors that
reason (and security if you matter about), you'll prefer 2 servers.
Don't agree AT ALL.
- OpenERP is built to scale (*)
- A full featured OpenERP will be much faster than Magento or Prestashop
You point is only valid if magento or prestashop are faster and allow to scale
more than OpenERP. But it's actually the opposite!
Why will OpenERP be always faster than MagentoCommerce and Prestashop. Because
it's much simpler and, thus, much easier to optimize. Just check the number of
lines of code:
- OpenERP (with ALL modules: CRM, Accounting, WMS, eCommerce, Events, ...):
150k lines of code, only 15k for CMS+eCommerce+events
- Magento (WITHOUT any module, version 1.8): 918k lines of code
- Prestashop (WITHOUT any module): 257k lines of code
So, at equivalent-features, OpenERP has around 10x less lines of code.
One is easier to optimize and scale and the others are not :)
It's not because we do more that we are more complex or slower.
(*) all massive read operations are O(1), we fine tuned it for huge
transactions. Only one module was a bottleneck to scale huge sales, it's
"stock", and its refactoring for v8 makes it become super fast and its speed is
not anymore dependent on the number of historic transactions.
Our SaaS servers already manages millions of documents per server, without any
issues. Try to do that with Magento.
* base_synchro is clearely not an option to separate 2 OpenERP servers. It's
has simply been abandoned by OpenERP for good reasons IMO (bad design, to many
troubles in real uses cases, no atomic transaction to inappropriate to sync ERP
datas).
base_synchro is not perfect. We still use it on some projects. We removed it
from v7 because we think it's nor for end-users as it's too complex but it
helped us a lot. Camptocamp's connector may be an option too.
My point is not to use this or that, but: it's much easier to sync OpenERP with
OpenERP rather than OpenERP with something else.
* This included ecommerce is a great step forward and people will love it. But
other e-commerce platform (like Magento, Prestashop and lot's of others) have
years of experience and devs behind them. They provide lot's of advance
products, sales and scaling features that you will not found in OpenERP
E-commerce yet.
That's actually their main issue! They have years of technical debt.
They became bloated and have difficulties to evolve.
* In case you're running a important e-commerce solution, I think you will
definitely keep 2 tools and use a connector in-between (like
https://code.launchpad.net/openerp-connector)
For others purposes, like HR & recruitment, events publication and more, this
new feature is clearly a big advantage. It will also serve small companies for
their first e-commerce experience and that's great ! This is also a first step
in the direction of having one tools to rules front and back end together. But
I cannot reasonably imagine it's viable for middle to large companies currently.
If you think OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, you are missing the
point completly. OpenERP is designed to handle big companies need, much more
than current eCommerce software. We are only at v1 and I bet we can already
serve big companies much better than Magento. I think that if we do a list of
features, OpenERP has more green marks, even on v1!
Side note: our videos emphasized on useability and simple interface. It does
not mean that we don't handle complex/advanced needs. It's OpenERP afterall :)
Another way to view this: the eCommerce module is only 2600 lines of code.
Even if something is missing in v1, it's a piece of cake to add a new feature
on such a clean structure. (and you don't have to learn a new
language/framework)
module and ported to v7. There is an outstanding merge request in to
server-env-tools on v7 branch which as yet has not been reviewed. So
if you require this functionality then please test it and get it
merged.
It adds a new module, base_synchro_auto for automating
synchronisation, automatic population of fields with boolean style
selection of fields to sync. There is a third module which I am
trying to work out how to make generic which is an initialisation and
configuration module for existing databases which will match up all
the existing matching records prior to syncing.
It won't do translations AFAIK (although maybe syncing the
ir_translations table does it, I don't know), but forms a good base
upon which to extend.
https://code.launchpad.net/~gdgellatly/server-env-tools/base-synchro-7.0/+merge/200127
On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Mariano Ruiz <[email protected]> wrote:
> Fabien says:
>
> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules like
> base_synchro to sync them)
>
>
> But, the base_synchro module is not supported any more from the 6.1 version.
> We use this to sync two OpenERP 6.1 instance, and we found a lot of bug in
> this module. A special error related for this discussion: the module not
> sync translatable fields! only export the original value, without
> translations.
>
> We report this, but the response was: "base_synchro" doesn't exist anymore
> on trunk and in stable release 7.0, So this issue doesn't affect to trunk.
>
> So, we fix the module, but only tested in 6.1 version, maybe for 7.0 and
> trunk version is not working, check the bug #1195801.
>
>
> 2014/1/18 Fabien Pinckaers <[email protected]>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> As an example, we just did a quick prototype to illustrate my point.
>> >> Check this video, a new way of doing quotations:
>> >>
>> >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5SDZFcEJmTXFyNTA/edit?usp=sharing
>> >
>> > This is awesome. I imagine instead of sending a customer a quotation
>> > with 100 pages, you can have a interactive webpage, including graphics,
>> > videos, 3d-modells and all the stuff.
>> >
>> >> This is so cool. I bet it improves quotes success rate by at least 20%!
>> >
>> > If we have the first customer implementing this, i will ask him to do a
>> > A/B-Testing to validate your numbers ;)
>>
>> We will use this for our own need within 4 weeks. So, I will be able to
>> provide stats.
>>
>> >
>> >> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules like
>> >> base_synchro to sync them)
>> >
>> > What is the branch on that, so that we can have a look in details?
>>
>> It s an official module since v6
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Greetings
>> >
>> > Markus
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dipl.-Comp.-Math. Markus Schneider
>> > Softwareentwickler
>> >
>> > initOS GmbH & Co. KG
>> > An der Eisenbahn 1
>> > 21224 Rosengarten
>> >
>> > Mobil: +49 (0)172 2303699
>> > Phone: +49 (0)4105 5615613
>> > Fax: +49 (0)4105 5615610
>> >
>> > Email: [email protected]
>> > Web: http://www.initos.com
>> >
>> > Geschäftsführung:
>> > Dipl. Wirt.-Inf. Frederik Kramer & Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Francke
>> > Haftende Gesellschafterin: initOS Verwaltungs GmbH
>> >
>> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Rosengarten – Klecken
>> > Amtsgericht Tostedt, HRA 201840
>> > USt-IdNr: DE 275698169
>> > Steuer-Nr: 15/205/21402
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Mariano Ruiz
> Software Architect & Web Developer
> http://www.mrdev.com.ar
>
>
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--
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INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
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Business Solutions
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