On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Tim Churches wrote:
...
> It is this latter paper which is a minor but useful generalistaion of
> the method described by Pommerening et al.

Hi Tim,
  In either case, the SDSS method is not too useful yet aside from
academic discussions. :-)

> The method described in your US patent does, however, seem very similar
> to the Kerberos system developed at and described by MIT at least a
> decade earlier. The main difference is that in Kerberos the
> authentication database passes a time-limited authentication ticket
> directly back to the user, who then packages that ticket with his/her
> request, whereas in your system the authentication ticket is passed
> directly from the authentication database to the storage database,

Almost right. The SDSS architecture passes the "linking code" - in
addition to the authentication ticket! I suppose you can say that the
linking code is a minor generalization of the "authentication ticket" -
but I disagree.  Authentication ticket is unique to each user and/or
request instance.  "Linking code" is not.

Now, perhaps you view passing the authentication ticket back to the user
vs. directly forwarding the ticket to the next database as yet another
minor difference - but I believe most people working with protocol design
would disagree. :-)

There are significant security and performance implications to this
"minor" difference. Your thoughts?

> which may or may not be an advantage, depending on the circumstances.

Exactly! Kerberos chose to use a _time-limited_ authentication ticket
precisely to mitigate potential replay attack (by the users). A SDSS
system would not have this vulnerability.

What vulnerabilities do you see with the SDSS system, if any?

> Later versions of Kerberos introduced PKI and associated key
> management very similar to that described in your US patent, but they
> still pre-date it.

Pre-dating is irrelevant when it is significantly different. :-)

Use of PKI and associated PKI key management in SDSS is not interesting.
If there are 5 database-sites that one wishes to "scatter" a particular
secret to, one would split the secret information into five shares and
encrypt each share such that only the intended database site is able to
decrypt each share. PKI is useful in this context merely because prior
secure key exchange is not required. Use of PKI reduces overhead for
scaling the system (e.g. from scattering across 2 sites to 200 sites :-).

...
> If the idea had appeared as a scientific paper, then you would have
> deserved our congratulations

Thanks! Unfortunately, it is far premature to even call this a substantive
contribution. When I can successfully describe and explain this to my
colleagues, then I may be making an intellectual contribution.

> for advancing the science of security by describing a useful
> simplification of the Kerberos protocol combined with the work of
> Pommerening et al..

There are significant differences in security trade-offs between the
Kerberos protocol and SDSS such that I would be hesitant to suggest that
SDSS is a simplification or replacement for Kerberos.

With regards to the Pommerening system, I would say that we were thinking
along the same lines, except they were more concerned with anonymizing
records - while I had to solve the problem of handling personally
identifiable and non-specifically "sensitive" records. It is impossible to
know whether they would have stumbled upon the same design if they were
forced to solve the same problem.

...

Best regards,

Andrew
---
Andrew P. Ho, M.D.
OIO: Open Infrastructure for Outcomes
www.TxOutcome.Org (Hosting OIO Library #1 and OSHCA Mirror #1)

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