Hi Alexei, Sebastian, Maxim and the rest of team, Here is my one 1h usability review.
Installation The installation itself was very weird and difficult. First I wasn't sure weather to download "binaries" file or "source". Source wasn't the right one apparently. After that, I barely saw the small text beneath the install instructions online, and had to manually re-type the address for the web installer. red5.bat reported no "Java_home" set-up but I managed to start the installation. I don't expect regular installation and just bunch of "next" buttons, but it would be great to make better instructions. This is view from someone who is not familiar with open source and Apache like way of downloading and installing software. It works, but it's weird for people that are not part of open source world. First point: making download page and installation process more user friendly, it will increase the numbers of downloads. Form Register form is massive. Maybe just use really necesary information, and later on users can input needed information if they want to use certain options. Second point: the rule is, the less input fields you have, more people will submit the form. If you reduce the number of fields, you would increase the number of registered users. Size Overall, the size could take less space in the browser. Users with bigger screens (over 22") will have a massive white space, making options and functions look a bit tiny. So, application has to take a certain amount of the screen, OR you could localize all options and controls to be just a bit closer together. Video Webcam video holder should not have randomly generated position. Maybe a spacial section on the right side or in place of the player's avatar? Also, a nice option would be to have a central place for the speakers webcam. For example, when a user speaks, a video holder appears above the properties and chat, at the middle of the screen. And when a software detects another mic/user active, it switches the video to that users webcam. Global Selection Users should be able to select multiple objects and delete them or move them. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40227395/JBRS/FEDO/Globalselection.jpg Properties When users needs to change font color, or line color...he has to go all the way down almost to the bottom of the screen. Therefore, properties panel needs to be next to tools panel. Design Of course, design can be much much better. I am guessing this is a template or it just uses pre-defined elements. Overall everything works nice. Only placement and some extra options are required to give it a nice flow. Best Regards, Marko Bijelic On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]> wrote: >> 1) Displaying of lists: configuration, language labels, rooms etc. > > Maybe we should use java management API and embed the existing > management console? > Maybe we should ship admin as a separate release bundle? Splitting > will help re-using other technologies. > Maybe we should ask designer guys on look & feel concept, and apply it > to our product? > > -- > With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, > Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, > http://dataved.ru/ > +7 916 562 8095 > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Alexei Fedotov > <[email protected]> wrote: >> I do not stop people from volunteering. My thanks to Maxim for 1) >> proactivity; 2) good technology choice. >> >> I missed few items, Maxim told the first one is somewhere in the thread. >> 1. Why not to recompile OpenLaszlo to DHTML? >> 2. What is the plan and is it actually doable? What is time estimate? >> >> My friend who worked for our competior told me that they have >> re-written design four times during the last for years. We don't have >> resources for this. So my suggestion would be the following: >> 1. Find Openmeetings usability problems or most wanted features. Maybe >> Marco can help. >> 2. Develop that using new technology, making minor adjustments to >> already working things. >> >> So main concerns >> 1. It make little sense copying existing workflow. It adds value to >> improve the workflow. >> 2. We need to add value to the product on any step. That makes us >> user-oriented, not technology oriented. >> >> How good wicket is with jquery? It does not seem to work with jquery >> out of the box. >> >> -- >> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, >> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, >> http://dataved.ru/ >> +7 916 562 8095 >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:51 AM, [email protected] >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> What are your alternatives? >>> There are already people volunteering to start contributing to it. >>> It can be realized without breaking functionality, we still have the >>> Flash interface available while we build DHTML. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Sebastian >>> >>> 2012/8/28 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>: >>>> Guys, please do not rush, let me think a bit. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, >>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, >>>> http://dataved.ru/ >>>> +7 916 562 8095 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM, [email protected] >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Ok >>>>> >>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>> I prefer develop in trunk. I would vote for this >>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012 3:49 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That sounds good. >>>>>>> Do you want to create a new branch for the DHTML tree >>>>>>> or will trunk become the DHTML tree and we create a 2.1 branch ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> > We need to add following lines to our ivy.xml: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > <dependency org="org.apache.wicket" name="wicket-core" >>>>>>> > rev="6.0.0-beta3" conf="openmeetings->*"/> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > and that is all >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I can create "sample Om main page" and them both of as can add >>>>>>> components to it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:38 PM, [email protected] >>>>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >> Wickets standard project setup require Maven. What is your proposal >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>>> >> integrate Wicket into the current stack? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Sebastian >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>> I don't really understand why do we need maven? >>>>>>> >>> Why ant+ivy is not enough? >>>>>>> >>> I always thought it is similar tools. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Could you please explain it? >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:10 PM, [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> Well lets give it a try with Wicket. >>>>>>> >>>> However when it comes to the real collaboration and UI effects I >>>>>>> >>>> think >>>>>>> >>>> we will heavily use jQuery. >>>>>>> >>>> We will first have to integrate our application in a Maven styled >>>>>>> project. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> I guess we can still use ANT to compile certain aspect of our >>>>>>> >>>> application, Maven can trigger ANT build scripts. >>>>>>> >>>> http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-antrun-plugin/ >>>>>>> >>>> seems to be a perfect tool for us. >>>>>>> >>>> However some of the Ivy dependency management might be difficult to >>>>>>> >>>> set up. Lets try that out. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> 2012/8/27 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>> Hello Sebastian, >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> sorry for the late reply (was out of city with no internet access) >>>>>>> >>>>> While proposing using Apache Wicket I thought of following: >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> 1) Displaying of lists: configuration, language labels, rooms etc. >>>>>>> >>>>> 2) Use of Ajax to refresh only parts of page displayed. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> We definitely can use JS libraries (like jQuery UI) only but this >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> >>>>> make code less readable. I believe Apache Wicket will be good for >>>>>>> >>>>> Admin menu etc. And we can easily add jQuery UI to it. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> Instead of Wicket we can use Spring MVC and Velocity. >>>>>>> >>>>> I have proposed Wicket only because I have more experience with it >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>> from my point of view it is easy to maintain. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:23 AM, [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> After some discussion I would like to propose to integrate Apache >>>>>>> >>>>>> Wicket and try it out. >>>>>>> >>>>>> I have update the document: >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal >>>>>>> >>>>>> Please add your notes. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would be my proposal: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENMEETINGS/DHTML+Proposal >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What if we instead of Apache Wicket use Apache Velocity to >>>>>>> provide the >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> basic structure of the HTML websites? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All dynamically loaded data, rendering of items could be then >>>>>>> done by jQuery. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That way we will have a set of html templates to work on and a >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> UI >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> framework to manipulate it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like to share this use-case >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the next iteration I would like to put the Chat box as a >>>>>>> permanent >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> box similar to what is in Google+ and Facebook on the bottom. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That mean no matter where you go, admin section, room list, >>>>>>> dashboard >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> => the chat always stays the same, so a complete page refresh >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> not possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would simply replace the DIV that contains the main content >>>>>>> with new >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> one when switching between main menu entries. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What do you think about that? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How would that affect the framework discussion? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When it comes to rendering and UI component frameworks you >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> projects like: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> code.google.com/p/wiquery >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.7thweb.net/jquery-ui-samples/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Simple search for "Apache Wicket UI samples" and you find >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> tons >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> jQuery examples that are used in Apache Wicket. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So from my point of view Apache Wicket is simply no UI >>>>>>> framework. It >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> is a web-framework. How things render is not part of it. >>>>>>> Practically >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it might mean that we could combine Apache Wicket with jQuery >>>>>>> too. But >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> why use Apache Wicket then at all? We have already a backend >>>>>>> with Rest >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Services and everything. Wicket would duplicate that. What >>>>>>> parts of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wicket would we really use? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 [email protected] <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you show examples of Apache Wicket UI widgets and >>>>>>> animation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2012/8/24 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend to review Apache Wicket. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is MVC it has lots of UI components like paged lists >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> table >>>>>>> views etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It had built-in AJAX support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In general I'll vote for moving to DHTML >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2012 3:57 PM, "[email protected]" < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start a discussion about options to >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> migrate >>>>>>> and a >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Roadmap for the upcomfing versions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is our current situation: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We currently have two client side application a) + b) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a) Audio/Video related stuff is all the SWF10 app >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> b) whiteboard, administration + all the rest in the SWF8 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> app. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The two SWFs communicate via LocalConnection with each >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are three options from my point of view: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) refactor the SWF8 app to SWF11 and keep the >>>>>>> LocalConnection >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) refactor the SWF8 and merge SWF8 with SWF10 app to a >>>>>>> single SWF11 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> app and get rid of the LocalConnection workaround >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) refactor the SWF8 app to HTML5 and only use SWF for the >>>>>>> audio/video >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> part. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> option 1 is the easiest thing to do >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> option 2 is the best from architecture point of view >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> option 3 is the best for moving to HTML5 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From my point of view it would be the best option to start >>>>>>> DHTML >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> refactoring now (in a version 3.0 branch) and release the >>>>>>> current >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> trunk tree (as version 2.1). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For the transition to DHTML we have several options: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I) Refactor to DHTML using OpenLaszlo >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> II) Refactor to DHTML using a JavaScript framework >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (jQuery, >>>>>>> Dojo, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Wicket, Spring+MVC) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My personal preference is using jQuery. It provides >>>>>>> components for UI >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and animation and is the most widespread. From a project >>>>>>> point of view >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it will be more easy to attract new developers if they can >>>>>>> use tools >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that they are comfortable in. And I really don't want to >>>>>>> code a client >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> side application that requires heavy usage of the >>>>>>> page-refresh. That >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would be like moving back in time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some architectural questions that we should >>>>>>> discuss for the >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript refactoring. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> However there should be some kind of consens on the >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> overall >>>>>>> RoadMap first. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>> WBR >>>>>>> >>>>> Maxim aka solomax >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>> >>> WBR >>>>>>> >>> Maxim aka solomax >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>> >> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> >> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> >> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> >> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> >> [email protected] >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > WBR >>>>>>> > Maxim aka solomax >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sebastian Wagner >>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>>>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sebastian Wagner >>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock >>> http://www.webbase-design.de >>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com >>> [email protected]
