Werner Almesberger wrote: > Mike (mwester) wrote: >> You are unilaterally making the decision to replace existing >> functionality with something that provides considerably lesser >> functionality, yet you have never proven the case that the lost >> functionality is, in fact, extraneous. > > Heh, they say "it's impossible to prove a negative" :-) > > But do you have an example for a real-life accident where you've > successfully used the in-kernel power down mechanism and you think > the experience would have been significantly worse if only neodog > would have been available ?
Yes, I use it all the time -- in fact, this technique is the easiest way to determine if a particular failure is a user-space problem, or the "it failed to resume yet again" problem. But hey, I've let myself be sucked into this silly discussion -- as you say, it's impossible to prove a negative -- and I can see quite clearly that you will refuse to accept anything I have to say on the usefulness of this feature either. So we've both made up our minds, and apparently from each of our perspectives we're both in the right. The conclusion is inevitable. Personally, I think that it would help a lot of these discussions if Openmoko would get a little closer to the perspective I and the community have on these problems. It would really help if all Openmoko employees would join the IRC channels, if only to listen there. Listen and hear what the user community has to say, and I think you'll all be a little more sensitive to the removal of debugging tools from the kernel, and the frustrations caused by some of the things we've argued about over the past months. Along with that, I think every Openmoko employee should be required to use a GTA02 as their primary cell phone -- it may be unbelievable but there are community members who are attempting to do that. In particular for those folks, these issues are very real, and not academic "arguing points". Hmm... You know, if everyone at Openmoko were to attempt to use the device as a day-to-day primary cell phone, this entire discussion might very well be moot, as I suspect that the user-space and kernel might be rock-solid very shortly, and we wouldn't need this functionality! Regards, Mike
