Thank you Sent from my iPad Air 2
> On Apr 25, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes OpenSimulator can use all the help it can get. My messages were intended > to help bring the MOSES contributions into core in a way that many can > benefit, and to raise awareness of some caveats. I hope they weren't > misinterpreted by those who are involved in contributing. > >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Frank Nichols <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> Accepted. But i am not concerned with my feelings, i am concerned with the >> future of OS. >> >> We need help. I cant help, but others can - Intel, Moses, numerous groups in >> Academia. Many would like to help, we just need to balance the pain of >> breaking backwards compatibility with the benefits of funded research into >> making OS better for all of us. >> >> Frank >> >> Sent from my iPad Air 2 >> >>> On Apr 25, 2015, at 7:38 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> My apologies for upsetting you, Frank. Perhaps it was the use of the phrase >>> "academic dishonesty" which influenced my prior message. >>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Frank Nichols <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Jezz, seriously, this is how you expect to garner serious support from >>>> people that can advance OS beyond being a toy that a few people play with. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 25, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It is indeed unfortunate that questionable results may have been >>>>> propagated. Please bear in mind that few, if any, developers of >>>>> OpenSimulator have committed to producing a software which is intended >>>>> for such purposes. There are likely many artifices in OpenSimulator and >>>>> in 3D graphics applications in general. I would *strongly suggest* that >>>>> those who attempt to use the software for such purposes take >>>>> responsibility for understanding the applicability of this software for >>>>> their purposes. >>>>> >>>>> I will also suggest that a review of the license for OpenSimulator might >>>>> be in order, quoted here for your convenience: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without >>>>> * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are >>>>> met: >>>>> * * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright >>>>> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. >>>>> * * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above >>>>> copyrightD >>>>> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in >>>>> the >>>>> * documentation and/or other materials provided with the >>>>> distribution. >>>>> * * Neither the name of the OpenSimulator Project nor the >>>>> * names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote >>>>> products >>>>> * derived from this software without specific prior written >>>>> permission. >>>>> * >>>>> * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPERS ``AS IS'' AND ANY >>>>> * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE >>>>> IMPLIED >>>>> * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE >>>>> * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY >>>>> * DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL >>>>> DAMAGES >>>>> * (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR >>>>> SERVICES; >>>>> * LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER >>>>> CAUSED AND >>>>> * ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR >>>>> TORT >>>>> * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE >>>>> OF THIS >>>>> * SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE." >>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Good design principles reduce complexity while maintaining or increasing >>>>>> functionality. I am not in support of the idea of introducing >>>>>> multiplier variables into the ini file. This is for a number of >>>>>> reasons, one being there are a large number of multiplier variables that >>>>>> could be needed and the ini file is already complicated enough. Adding >>>>>> more variables and code, rather than fixing bad code is not a >>>>>> responsible solution. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a gut-check opportunity for the devs. At some point in the >>>>>> past, somebody made the decision to artificially inflate these numbers >>>>>> and now (years later), that mistake has caught up with us. The longer >>>>>> you wait, the more painful the correction will be. It should be >>>>>> corrected, and any monitoring tools updated. It is the responsible >>>>>> course of action. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We are attempting to help you by addressing physics and networking >>>>>> issues within the Open Simulator. Step Zero of this process is trusting >>>>>> the simulator statistics. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME >>>>>> Science and Technology Manager >>>>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications >>>>>> U.S. Army Research Lab >>>>>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate >>>>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center >>>>>> (c) (407) 242-0209 >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> [[email protected]] on behalf of Michael Emory >>>>>> Cerquoni [[email protected]] >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 8:59 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you think about making the multiplier a modifiable variable in >>>>>> OpenSim.ini? This will allow anyone who wants to improve performance >>>>>> and use the stock #'s and in the meantime people can continue to use the >>>>>> code in a meaningful way without having to rewrite scripts and >>>>>> monitoring tools to continue testing other code that may be pushed into >>>>>> core, especially if the end goal is to get statistics to report back at >>>>>> the original numbers? I am mostly just trying to understand the end >>>>>> goal myself. If that is not possible I would suggest this work be moved >>>>>> into a development branch until we can get statistics back to the normal >>>>>> numbers again? Otherwise we are talking about locking the code down to >>>>>> all other development until this process is complete, and no one has >>>>>> discussed any kind of time frame for this level of changes to complete, >>>>>> I would hate to put a complete halt to development in order for this to >>>>>> happen. I am not against doing what you suggest, I just want to make >>>>>> sure we do it in the most efficient way possible. Would be good to hear >>>>>> what others in the core development have to say, hopefully Justin and >>>>>> Diva and Melanie, Misterblue, BlueWall, you guys can chime in here as >>>>>> well, as I am only one person here and for the record just voicing my >>>>>> own concerns, I am far from the final say on any of this stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> Folks, before we can make any meaningful progress in performance >>>>>>> enhancements to the open simulator we have to be able to rely on the >>>>>>> simulator statistics. Currently they are (purposefully) misreported to >>>>>>> make the simulator look like it is performing better than it really is. >>>>>>> This is not acceptable if we are to dig in and begin to assist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME >>>>>>> Science and Technology Manager >>>>>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications >>>>>>> U.S. Army Research Lab >>>>>>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate >>>>>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center >>>>>>> (c) (407) 242-0209 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>> [[email protected]] on behalf of Melanie >>>>>>> [[email protected]] >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:56 PM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is also my opinion that this change isn't fit for core. If and >>>>>>> when additional stats, like "real fps" and "physics engine fps" can >>>>>>> be shown in the viewer, then that would be good but the viewer stats >>>>>>> window should continue to show the fudged figures indefinitely. This >>>>>>> is because people don't only use scripts but also bots to do >>>>>>> monitoring and bots receive the same data the viewer receives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Melanie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 24/04/2015 23:42, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote: >>>>>>> > ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just >>>>>>> > display >>>>>>> > 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be >>>>>>> > using >>>>>>> > monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the >>>>>>> > region, >>>>>>> > we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to >>>>>>> > accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the >>>>>>> > project as a whole. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni < >>>>>>> > [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the >>>>>>> >> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later >>>>>>> >> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to >>>>>>> >> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps >>>>>>> >> before >>>>>>> >> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do >>>>>>> >> test this >>>>>>> >> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks! >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL >>>>>>> >> (US) < >>>>>>> >> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >>>>>>> >>> Caveats: NONE >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces. The patch >>>>>>> >>> should >>>>>>> >>> still >>>>>>> >>> apply and work. We follows the open simulator patch creation >>>>>>> >>> guidance >>>>>>> >>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want >>>>>>> >>> this >>>>>>> >>> done - >>>>>>> >>> let us know. Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> v/r -douglas >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME >>>>>>> >>> Science and Technology Manager >>>>>>> >>> Virtual World Strategic Applications >>>>>>> >>> U.S. Army Research Lab >>>>>>> >>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC) >>>>>>> >>> (c) (407) 242-0209 >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> >>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael >>>>>>> >>> Emory >>>>>>> >>> Cerquoni >>>>>>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM >>>>>>> >>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for >>>>>>> >>> testing, >>>>>>> >>> thanks >>>>>>> >>> guys! >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Opensim Devs >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission >>>>>>> >>> from >>>>>>> >>> project >>>>>>> >>> MOSES. Thanks. >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>> >>> Michael Heilmann >>>>>>> >>> Research Associate >>>>>>> >>> Institute for Simulation and Training >>>>>>> >>> University of Central Florida >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>>>> >>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>>>>> >>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >>>>>>> >>> Caveats: NONE >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>>>> >>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>> >> Michael Emory Cerquoni >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>>>> > [email protected] >>>>>>> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
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