But really... How many people who aren't really looking for this info are going to find it. ;) Nubs aren't going to know where to look. But blocking by string probably wouldn't be the best, but it would work for dumb people. ;)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Frisby, Adam" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be done? > While I hate to rain on anyone's parade - but you can use the "-channel" > commandline switch to edit the version string to whatever you want. I > really wouldn't rely on it. > > Adam > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:opensim-users- >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Imago >> Sent: Tuesday, 12 January 2010 9:34 AM >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be >> done? >> >> Thanks, I've been looking over the code, and yeah, I know people could. >> But >> really how many regular joes out there would be interested enough to >> download, compile, and play with the code. *laughs* I don't think >> there's >> many, because a lot of them would much rather have instant >> gratification >> rather then having to work for it. >> >> But in my opinion even fragile filtering is better then none at all. >> Because >> while some could get in the population en masse wouldn't be able to. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be >> done? >> >> >> > As Teravus said, the LL viewer sends a string identifying itself and >> a >> > version. In the new login procedure that is captured by the >> > LLLoginHandlers as >> > if (requestData.Contains("version")) >> > clientVersion = requestData["version"].ToString(); >> > >> > Right now we're not doing anything interesting with this information. >> > When this refactoring makes it to the master branch, people can >> replace >> > / augment the existing LLLoginHandlers to do other things including >> > filtering logins according to this field. >> > >> > But as others said here, this is a very fragile filtering, as any >> viewer >> > can send that field saying that it's an LL viewer. >> > >> > Imago wrote: >> >> Ah! Thank you. I did read something on the subject, but then >> suffered a >> >> hard >> >> drive death and it wiped out any settings I had. :( Google comes up >> with >> >> way >> >> too much junk when you look for stuff as well as Mantis stuff and >> Jiras. >> >> I >> >> will check in to this. So, now I know it is possible. :D Now, it's >> just >> >> finding a way to do it. *shrugs and laughs* If it keeps a few kids >> out >> >> than >> >> that's fine. I'd rather have fun then to have to police my console >> for >> >> logins. :D >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Teravus Ovares" <[email protected]> >> >> To: <[email protected]> >> >> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:56 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this >> be >> >> done? >> >> >> >> >> >>> The viewer information is sent when the viewer logs in. If you >> >>> check the viewer channel version string when the viewer logs in, >> you >> >>> can deny based on a string match. That's the easy (and least >> >>> effective way) to lock only specific viewers. >> >>> >> >>> I believe that diva and Melanie_T were the last to work on these >> >>> areas.. so they would probably be able to tell you where to >> check >> >>> 'best'. >> >>> >> >>> One thing to note, however, is.. >> >>> >> >>> The viewer logs into the 'user service' by sending an XMLRPC >> request >> >>> to the HTTP Service with the login_to_simulator method. It's at >> >>> this time that the 'viewer channel string' should be checked. >> >>> >> >>> Teravus >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Imago <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>>> Mostly I want this because of piece of mind, but also because I am >> >>>> considering compiling a viewer on Hippo code that will have a >> different >> >>>> channel code altogether that I will probably use for the sim. If I >> can >> >>>> lock >> >>>> off viewers that don't have my exact channel or code then I can be >> sure >> >>>> only >> >>>> official viewers can get in. Right now the sim is only for friends >> but >> >>>> if >> >>>> I >> >>>> open it up to more I wouldn't want idiots coming in and mucking >> about >> >>>> the >> >>>> place. Which is why I was asking. I know that some opensim >> *shaking >> >>>> head* >> >>>> I >> >>>> wish I could remember who and where banned certain viewers from >> logging >> >>>> in. >> >>>> I'm not sure how she/he did it, though, but it got me curious as >> to how >> >>>> it's >> >>>> done. That and I wouldn't really want someone using something like >> Cryo >> >>>> or >> >>>> even Meerkat, but as you said... They probably all have the same >> >>>> default >> >>>> code. But if I put in another code and compiled it off of hippo or >> >>>> Linden's >> >>>> viewer I could put in my own channel and have others not able to >> enter. >> >>>> I >> >>>> like security and peace of mind, but security in this day and age >> is a >> >>>> myth. >> >>>> (Like those stupid broadcasting things that were supposed to stop >> >>>> copybot.) >> >>>> >> >>>> But I was just curious if anyone had done it or heard of it. I >> want to >> >>>> say >> >>>> openlifegrid did it, but I can't remember so I don't want to say >> for >> >>>> sure >> >>>> until I find it again. (computer crashes suck.) >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: "Karen Palen" <[email protected]> >> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 11:24 PM >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can >> this be >> >>>> done? >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> As I think of it the answer is the same. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The Linden Labs viewer does send an identification and version >> number, >> >>>>> bat >> >>>>> that really does very little. Almost every viewer out there is >> based >> >>>>> on >> >>>>> the current LL viewer and many people don't bother changing this >> code >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> their experimental versions. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> For example I just checked and I have a customised LL viewer >> where the >> >>>>> only change is that it will log on to my private sim by default. >> The >> >>>>> ID >> >>>>> codes are identical to the original since I never bothered to >> change >> >>>>> them. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I use it to make sure that my private sim will run OK with the >> >>>>> "official" >> >>>>> viewer. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I am not really sure why you would want that restriction though. >> >>>>> Should >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> be considering that for my sim? Have I missed something here? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sorry. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Karen >> >>>>> >> >>>>> --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> From: Imago <[email protected]> >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can >> this >> >>>>>> be >> >>>>>> done? >> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >> >>>>>> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:05 PM >> >>>>>> I don't think anyone is >> >>>>>> understanding. :D It's not just Cryo. I want only >> >>>>>> Linden Lab viewers to be able to login. I've seen it done >> >>>>>> on other >> >>>>>> opensim's. I know people can get around that. But the point >> >>>>>> is... Not >> >>>>>> everyone is a coder. So, while they could compile and make >> >>>>>> it look like a >> >>>>>> Linden Lab viewer then so be it. I just want to know if >> >>>>>> there's a mod or >> >>>>>> string that I can put in to opensim to see what channel the >> >>>>>> viewer is >> >>>>>> sending, and if it's not the right one than to display an >> >>>>>> error message that >> >>>>>> would tell them to download an official release in order to >> >>>>>> login. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Maybe I should have chosen my words better. Mentioning Cryo >> >>>>>> is like >> >>>>>> mentioning copybot, and responses only seem to be based on >> >>>>>> theft and copy >> >>>>>> protection. I just want to know if there's a string to >> >>>>>> block a viewer. I >> >>>>>> know people have done it I just can't remember what opensim >> >>>>>> I saw it done >> >>>>>> on. I also know that if I had Cryo source code I could >> >>>>>> compile and make it >> >>>>>> look like a Second Life release viewer. But not everyone is >> >>>>>> a hacker or a >> >>>>>> coder or both. Most people don't know how or can't compile >> >>>>>> a viewer or are >> >>>>>> too lazy to. So, they go look for one, and that's the basis >> >>>>>> for my thinking >> >>>>>> most theives are too lazy to try to figure out a way and >> >>>>>> will move on to the >> >>>>>> next target. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> So, the question I'm asking is: >> >>>>>> Is there a way for OpenSim to check a viewer string and >> >>>>>> allow or disallow >> >>>>>> based on that, and if so please let me know where that code >> >>>>>> is, and if >> >>>>>> not... Then I'll be burning the midnight oil again coding >> >>>>>> one up. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>> From: "Karen Palen" <[email protected]> >> >>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:44 PM >> >>>>>> Subject: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can >> >>>>>> this be done? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The short answer is no. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The more complete answer is that you while can easily >> >>>>>> detect some >> >>>>>>> characteristic of a viewer (or other software) which >> >>>>>> identifies that >> >>>>>>> viewer and use that to ban it, nothing can stop the >> >>>>>> authors of that viewer >> >>>>>>> from changing whatever characteristic you use. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Worse yet, whatever characteristic you select to >> >>>>>> identify the "bad" >> >>>>>>> software will inevitably turn up in some other >> >>>>>> (innocent) viewer sooner or >> >>>>>>> later and will cause them to be banned for no reason. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The best you could hope to achieve is some sort of >> >>>>>> "arms race" between >> >>>>>>> "bad" viewer creators and sim operators. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> In addition any viewer could be adapted for piracy. >> >>>>>> The original >> >>>>>>> experiments that resulted in >> >>>>>> libsecondlife/openMetaverse were based on >> >>>>>>> analysing the data stream between the Second Life >> >>>>>> Servers and the viewer >> >>>>>>> software (at the time ONLY the Linden Labs viewer) and >> >>>>>> had access to all >> >>>>>>> of that information. This was all done without >> >>>>>> modifying the viewer in any >> >>>>>>> way - it was proprietary at the time. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Sadly the lesson of the endless failures of DRM >> >>>>>> schemes elsewhere shows >> >>>>>>> that the real losers are the honest/innocent users who >> >>>>>> are unable to do >> >>>>>>> the things that they really should expect to do with >> >>>>>> the content that they >> >>>>>>> have purchased. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> For example, I have completely stopped buying anything >> >>>>>> in Second Life >> >>>>>>> since I want to use the inventory I buy in my private >> >>>>>> sims as well. Sure I >> >>>>>>> can use pirate tools to do this, but if I have to do >> >>>>>> that to use my >> >>>>>>> purchases where I want to use them then why not just >> >>>>>> steal the stuff in >> >>>>>>> the first place? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> This is very similar to the situation with music CDs >> >>>>>> and DVDs, why build >> >>>>>>> an expensive collection if you will just have to >> >>>>>> re-purchase it in a few >> >>>>>>> years for the next technology and some DRM scheme >> >>>>>> tries to keep me from >> >>>>>>> playing my collection on the new equipment? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> There are several efforts being directed at come sort >> >>>>>> of "portable" >> >>>>>>> content. I hope that one or more actually proves to >> >>>>>> work, but I have no >> >>>>>>> illusions about that actually happening any time >> >>>>>> soon. >> >>>>>>> My opinion is that the best we can do at present is >> >>>>>> similar to the real >> >>>>>>> life piracy situation: stop the commercial marketing >> >>>>>> of pirated >> >>>>>>> merchandise as it is detected and reported. Ban anyone >> >>>>>> who engages in such >> >>>>>>> activities and if they persist bring real world law >> >>>>>> enforcement to bear. >> >>>>>>> For once Linden Labs seems to be using a reasonable >> >>>>>> version of this when >> >>>>>>> they state that the viewer is not the problem, it is >> >>>>>> the use of the >> >>>>>>> viewer. They have promised to act promptly to ban >> >>>>>> anyone using any viewer >> >>>>>>> for piracy. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Karen >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <[email protected]> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Is it possible to stop >> >>>>>>>> certain viewers from logging >> >>>>>>>> in to your opensim? Like Cryo? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list >> >>>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list >> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Opensim-users mailing list >> >>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Opensim-users mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Opensim-users mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Opensim-users mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Opensim-users mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-users mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-users mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users _______________________________________________ Opensim-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
