Thanks. I hadn't intended on making my own ToS "bullet-proof", and I will be making it as plain language as I can. I'm not even at the point of drafting one yet. But those are good points to keep in mind. When it comes to accepting and agreeing to a ToS, people generally do so at the time they create their account, generally done through the grid's WebUI. My concern is mainly about visitors who arrive via HG. I don't want people to end up inadvertantly violating terms.
On 9/14/11, Karen Palen <[email protected]> wrote: > There are notecard giver scripts on the OSG Scripting Form that do this. > > They range from simple to sophisticated. > > On 09/14/2011 12:26 AM, M.E. Verhagen wrote: >> Is it possible to give people who hypergrid a notecard when they arrive ? >> >> >> >> 2011/9/14 Karen Palen <[email protected]> >> >>> I can only repeat what I learned in my "setting up a business" seminar a >>> few years ago: >>> >>> "Your goal should NEVER be to make your TOS/Rules/Agreement legally >>> bulletproof. If there is that much money involved that it is really >>> necessary then you need to spend the money for a lawyer! >>> >>> "What you should do is try very hard to make the rules/ToS/Agreement >>> state exactly what you mean and be extremely clea rin stating that. This >>> is the starting point if you hire a lawyer anyway. >>> >>> "If you do a good enough job then people will either comply, or go away >>> (be banned!). Even if it ends up in court the fact that it was clearly >>> written and easy to understand will be a major help in your case. >>> >>> "Lawsuits generally only result from two or more parties come up with >>> different interpretations about what was said or agreed. If it is >>> completely clear then there is simply no point in going to court!" >>> >>> Sadly that level of clarity is harder to do than it seems, and you might >>> want to hire a lawyer just to get the phrasing exactly right and >>> consider all of the possibilities. >>> >>> In any event plan on several drafts, and get a couple of people who see >>> the document for the first time to read it and tell you in their own >>> words what they think it says. You WILL be surprised the first few times >>> you do this - I KNOW!! :-) >>> >>> Oh yes if you are planning on something that large/critical, then ALSO >>> look into setting up a business entity (Corporation, LLC, or whatever) >>> to run it. >>> >>> See http://www.keytlaw.com/ for a summary of this aspect. >>> >>> "Information & Articles about Arizona and United States Law" >>> >>> Keyt is an Arizona/US lawyer, but the issues he raises are universal. I >>> highly recommend studying his website! >>> >>> As Keyt says in one of his articles, the day the process server knocks >>> on the door is one day too late! >>> >>> Karen >>> >>> On 09/13/2011 10:32 AM, Sarge Misfit wrote: >>>> Location, or jurisdiction actually, is definitely a big factor. From >>>> what I have seen is that it is the location of the grid's "official" >>>> headquarters that is the deciding factor. However, every ToS that I >>>> have seen also specifically states the jurisdiction, so it may be that >>>> I would have to include that as a requirement. I had planned to >>>> anyway, but its a good idea to raise that issue to, for the benefit of >>>> others. I don't think its about how strict a law is. Having worked as >>>> a researcher in a law office (quite some time ago), I can tell you >>>> that this is pretty new ground, so we may be developing precedent >>>> here. >>>> >>>> I just don't want to be the chum that gets tossed into the pool :-) >>>> But I also don't want to end up with some overly long legalistic ToS, >>>> either. I want to develop one that is in plain language and easy to >>>> understand. In fact, I am using SL's ToS as an example of what NOT to >>>> do *chuckles* >>>> >>>> On 9/13/11, Robert Martin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Sarge Misfit >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Doesn't HG already land a person at 128, 128, ground? >>>>>> >>>>>> The reason I'm asking about this is that I am planning on making my >>>>>> stand-alone public and having a good ToS in place is important. I >>>>>> don't want to end up setting up a visitor as violating anything. Other >>>>>> recent discussions have raised this issue, mostly about avatars, but >>>>>> also the very important issue of intellectual property protection. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example, the DMCA applies to US-based grids, but I'm Canadian, so >>>>>> my ToS should include something about Canadian IP protection law >>>>>> having jurisdiction. I think. >>>>>> >>>>> The real hook is that the law gets "messy" since there are possibly 3 >>>>> different countries involved and the overlap in laws may cause >>>>> conflicts. >>>>> 1 users physical location >>>>> 2 users POP /network "location" >>>>> 3 location for the grid server/ grid owner <---- this may actually be >>>>> a fourth location >>>>> >>>>> I would think that somebody needs to throw enough "chum" into a shark >>>>> pool to get this sorted out as a first pass effort. >>>>> >>>>> In this case i think that the stricter law applies (which would be the >>>>> US DMCA) for those using a Canadian Grid in the US. >>>>> -- >>>>> Robert L Martin >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Opensim-users mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-users mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-users mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-users mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-users mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users > _______________________________________________ Opensim-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
