On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Melanie <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Even a "grid transfer" flag would not mean that this software would
honor it if modified by a third party. As an open source release
"MyInventory" should be named "MyCopybot".
Any protection which relies on obscurity is just an illusion, wanting
MyInventory to be closed source denies legitimate users access to the
benefits of an opensource tool for legitimate use, which the badguys
already have today.
On top of that, the
inventories don't belong to the users. They belong to the creators
of the items and to the grids where they were uploaded and are stored.
That's where you and I see things very differently. The IP rights of
inventory content as a general rule belongs to the content creators,
the use rights belongs to the end user. The grids and regions really
have no standing, they serve the same role as website providers.
in the ideal world, grids and regions would not have a permanent asset
store, nor a permanent inventory store. These are brought along by the
user when the user logs into the grid and removed when the user logs
out again. This way the metaverse would better match the mental model
of most users and incidentally remove one issue of scalability,
although I admit it is a minor issue.
But I digress, this thread - to me - isn't about what overall
architecture to consider, but about what reasonable changes the Open
Simulator community would like to have in a tool where one of the
features mimics what I believe the TPV "Stored Inventory" has
today. Admittedly the tool offers an extended download mechanism for
grids where the end users rights has not been limited by a TOS, hence
my initial request, so MyInventory can help the user from violating
the TOS.
I am a bit saddend by the vitriol in some of the replies I have
received, they do not bode well for the future co-operation.
best regards
Snowcrash
Melanie
On 18/11/2012 00:47, Teravus Ovares wrote:
> "I hope this puts you somewhat at ease"
>
> This puts nobody at ease if the source code is going to be released.
> In fact, I'm just going to call out here that you still have not
argued a
> legitimate use case for it, and by legitimate... I mean
something that
> doesn't violate a terms of service and/or breach of contract and
'normal
> course of business' expectations. Since there's no legitimate
use at this
> time, your tool can only be used to do illegal stuff and that is
illegal in
> most countries. Just making my position clear. If you
want a
> legitimate use, then 'make one' by implementing BSD licensed
code changes
> in OpenSimulator to allow content creators to mark their content
as 'grid
> transfer'.. beyond that, I cannot approve of this action.
>
> That is all
>
> Teravus
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Snowcrash Short
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>wrote:
>
>> HI
>>
>> Whether your effort is worth while is a question only you can
answer.
>>
>> What I can tell you is that my software will not change
anything to the
>> assets on your server, it won't remove any assets or copy any
assets,
>> except those that are in the users inventory, and if you tell
me the domain
>> name you are using, I will implement the same protection
against theft as
>> is required for third party viewers on Linden Labs grids.
>>
>> I hope this puts you somewhat at ease.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Snowcrash.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 2:11 PM, InuYasha Meiji
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>wrote:
>>
>>> I am sorry, I am a bit prone to mood swings, on account of
being both, an
>>> insulin dependent diabetic and after an 8 year wait on
dialysis, I am on
>>> kidney transplant immune suppressants. This whole
conversation is starting
>>> to depress the %^&* out of me, wondering if all of this is
worth my time
>>> and money anymore. When I discovered Opensim, I thought,
finally I can
>>> have enough land to build something impressive. I once built
the most
>>> important building of Shuri called the Seiden of Shuri in a
sim called
>>> Butler in Secondlife. Now I could build the entire castle on
my own grid,
>>> and choose a time period and scale. With enough research to
build a
>>> historically accurate Castle during its golden era.. I have
researched
>>> more then 5 years on this project, only to be sure I had
enough detail and
>>> knowledge of the culture to create what was around in the late
16th early
>>> 17th century.
>>>
>>> I have been saving money by not eating as well, I lost 32
pounds in
>>> three months. It should be another year, or year and a half,
to get a
>>> monster of a server to run it on. As I save up, prices cme
down to built
>>> a twin AMD 3+ Bulldozers each with 16 cores to run it on.
>>>
>>> This conversation has me thinking only about people stealing
my assets,
>>> makeing me think, why bother. To me the realease of
Snowcrashe's
>>> software makes it easy for anyone to just freely grab all my
work, I give
>>> on my grid, for use on my grid, and drag it off someplace,
even SL to
>>> resell and use no matter how I try to protect myself and my
work. Also
>>> from what he said other "black hatters" can do it ANYWAYS. To
me this
>>> means hours of hand texturing, the hours I spent building,
till my one good
>>> eye gives me such a headache I pop tylonol like candy.
>>>
>>> IT takes me more time and effort to do as much as some with
only one
>>> working eye. I want it to stay here on my grid unless I
choose to sell it
>>> in another grid like Secondlife. I also don't want my grid a
16th-17th
>>> century grid becoming filled with airplanes and cars and other
modern
>>> items. Can someone tell me now, why should I even put more
work into
>>> creating this world and taking any more of my life creating
anything
>>> anymore??
>>>
>>> InuYasha.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/17/2012 2:47 AM, Snowcrash Short wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:50 PM, What Virtual World - Martin
Forster <
>>>> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:blackberry@
<mailto:blackberry@>**forsterinternet.nl
<http://forsterinternet.nl><[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Snowcrash,
>>>> I think it is good having software to backup your items
but....
>>>> As melanie sayed before, the ability to backup "Any" item
would
>>>> not be a good idea as your software will be banned from major
>>>> grids due to this.
>>>> To be honest we would also blacklist your software if we
think it
>>>> can be at harm for the creators in our grid.
>>>> Please think if this:
>>>> Most people can not make a "copybot vieuwer" as the
things people
>>>> need for that are available but also complicated to build
if you
>>>> dont have any experiance.
>>>> If your software is easy to compile without any knowledge
it will
>>>> be a base for people to create these "copybot's" with.
>>>> This will not be the best advertisment for your software
in my
>>>> believe.
>>>> I think it will be best not to make it an opensource
project ..
>>>> but just distribute only in binary form.
>>>> Also making it TPV compliant will be even better.
>>>> If it protects content from beeing ilegaly copied on "any
grid" we
>>>> will support it for sure.
>>>> Just my two cents ...
>>>>
>>>> The backup feature, which really is only a small part of the
overall
>>>> featureset, currently operates in one of two modes, TPV
compliant mode and
>>>> unrestricted mode. MyInventory forces the download component
to be TPV
>>>> compatible when connecting to any known Linden Labs grid (and
similar
>>>> protection is underway for other grids), My original mail had
two topics.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Which grids would like to have the same hardcoded
protection level
>>>> against unrestricted download as Linden Labs
>>>> 2) This tool may - if it becomes popular - create a lot of
duplicate
>>>> assets, therefore I came up with a suggestion on how to
alleviate this
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Going closed source is simply "security by obscurity" under a
different
>>>> name, the "black hatters" already have the ability to take
what they want,
>>>> claiming that content creators assets are safe is simply not
true, and that
>>>> fact holds for Linden Labs grids as well.
>>>>
>>>> Even if you decide to block MyInventory, the blocking tools
are so
>>>> inadequate in these days of fast recycling DHCP servers, that
all you will
>>>> manage to do is to block out legitimate users, the "black
hatters" can
>>>> easily get around these limitations. And is that really what
you want?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Martin Forster
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Snowcrash Short
<mailto:snowcrash.short@gmail.
<mailto:snowcrash.short@gmail.>**com<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> >
>>>> *To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>> <mailto:opensim-users@lists.
<mailto:opensim-users@lists.>**berlios.de
<http://berlios.de><[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> >
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:44 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [Opensim-users] Announcement of inventory tool
>>>>
>>>> (MyInventory), mostly of interest to grid
operators/grid nauts
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I've been working on a client side tool for
decentralizing
>>>> user inventories, which I will release as an open
source tool
>>>> in two weeks, some of the features may be relevant to
grid
>>>> operators.
>>>>
>>>> The basic premise of the tool is that the inventory
and the
>>>> backing assets of the inventory items really should be
>>>> controlled by the user. The tool is born out of a
frustration
>>>> of having visited a number of grids. Each visit to a
new grid
>>>> presents me with an empty inventory, and I can then
spend time
>>>> searching for suitable item, clothing, attachments and
>>>> other accessories.
>>>>
>>>> For this purpose I have created a tool which will
allow me to
>>>> backup my inventory to a local cache and then upload the
>>>> contents to another grid.
>>>>
>>>> If my tool becomes popular, both the upload and download
>>>> mechanisms may have some impact on the
grid-operators, hence
>>>> this email to serve as a notice.
>>>>
>>>> The basic architecture is pretty simple, consisting of a
>>>> number of import agents, which can import the users
inventory
>>>> and backing assets to a local database, and a number
of upload
>>>> agents which can upload inventory content to a
specific account.
>>>>
>>>> Backup/Import
>>>> There are two import agents, one which will import
.iar files
>>>> and one which works very much like I believe "Stored
>>>> Inventory" works, which can backup the inventory of
an avatars
>>>> inventory. Avatar backup/Import is governed by a policy.
>>>> Currently there are two policies, one complying with
a very
>>>> restrictive interpretation of the Linden Labs policy on
>>>> backups, and a completely unrestricted policy, where
anything
>>>> that can be downloaded will be downloaded.
>>>>
>>>> When a new account is registered in MyInventory it
checks if
>>>> the account is for a Linden Lab grid and limits the
choices of
>>>> policies to policies suitable for LL's TOS, I cannot
and do
>>>> not know if other grids have similar policies, I can well
>>>> imagine that Avination has a similar restrictions,
and would
>>>> like similar logic implemented to restrict the
download. Any
>>>> grid operator which would like to have backup
governed by a
>>>> more restrictive policy are invited to notify me and
I will
>>>> attempt to implement the policy prior to the first
release of
>>>> the source code. or supply patches at a later time.
>>>>
>>>> Upload/Export
>>>> MyInventory supports two mechanisms for uploading
inventory
>>>> content, traditional upload using UDP/CAPS and direct
access
>>>> to the inventory and asset web-services.
>>>> Due to limitations in the UDP/CAPS protocol each
upload will
>>>> create new assets, and as of my latest read of the Open
>>>> Simulator code the asset store does not support "single
>>>> instance assets", i.e. it does not use a checksum to
verify if
>>>> the asset already exists, for this reason MyInventory
prefers
>>>> to upload using direct access to asset and inventory
>>>> web-services.
>>>>
>>>> I would propose that the grids which chooses to support
>>>> MyInventory augment their "GridInfoService" entries
with the
>>>> url's for the asset and inventory web-services, e.g.
>>>>
>>>> [GridInfoService]
>>>> assets = http://assets.osgrid.org
>>>> inventory = http://inventory.osgrid.org
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> Snowcrash
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>>>> ------------
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>>>> <mailto:Opensim-users@lists.
<mailto:Opensim-users@lists.>**berlios.de
<http://berlios.de><[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-users<https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users>
>>>>
>>>>
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<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ______________________________**______________________________**
>>> ____________
>>>
>>> Opensim User: In Gridmode on Version 0.7.4. Nine Instances
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